[chette777]

Parsih,

Dr Ruckman is a friend of mine. He sends me books and articles. But I take the meat and spit our the bones of Ruckman's fish.

I skip over his criticisms in his book where I can and they are short reads. I glean info but no his attitude. It was amazing to see in his General Epistle's Commentary he had toned down a lot of his normal scholarly criticism and the book read nicely.

he is a lot more gentler sounding in person than he comes across in his books. I suggest anyone who reads his books and has never seen him preach need to do so. it will give you better idea of the mans disposition.

hope that answers you question

Originally Posted by chette777

...I suggest anyone who reads his books and has never seen him preach need to do so. it will give you better idea of the mans disposition.

hope that answers you question

Thanks for the follow up and we agree on this...

[JOHN G]

Gen 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Gen 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Gen 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

A servant of servants shall HE be unto his brethren. We take the first he in v. 25 to be Noah singularly, why would we take the second he to be many people instead of just Canaan? It still seems to be just Canaan to me. Further, he is not cursed to be a servant (which is bad) but a servant of servants (which is worse)(lower than the low). One man can be a servant to many brethren.

Good discussion

[Brother Tim]

God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

John, if you stick with "he" as a singular only, and not referring to decendents, then this verse makes no sense. Follow you inference using my comments in brackets:

"God shall enlarge Japheth," [Japheth the man will become obese ?!?, OR PROPERLY,
Japheth will become a large nation]

"and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem;" [Japheth the man travels from tent to tent of Shem, who undoubtedly keeps moving to a new tent to get away from his live-in brother ?!?, OR PROPERLY,
Japheth's decendents become inhabitants of the areas originally inhabited by Shemites]

"and Canaan shall be his servant." [Canaan the man follows Uncle Japheth the man from one tent of Shem's to another, undoubtedly as Japheth's man Friday (or tent boy) ?!? OR PROPERLY,
the decendents of Canaan serve the decendents of the other brothers for some unspecified period of generations.

[JOHN G]

Good point Bro. Tim.
Man, crow tastes terrible!

[Brother Tim]

Hey, I wondered who had taken my last meal of crow!

Thanks, John, for your response.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by chette777

1) Israel is no where in the picture either at the point of Noah's cursing Canaan. you would really need to stretch that to make it fit Israel. Everyone living at that time would be considered Gentiles

2)No one said anything about White American Gentiles. for your info there were black slave owners as well in the south. few granted but they did exist. we mentioned Jhephite nations and Hamite nations. and if the curse went to his sons as you indicate by using the descendant name "Canaanites". Then you agree the curse covered more than just one man but to a whole Nation of people.

this next statement is not a Racist thing or a bigoted view in anyway nor is it being dogmatic but believing the word of God for what it says.

3) Ge 9:25-27 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant(referring to Shem's line). God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant(referring to Japheth's line). this says he sill serve his Brethren which would be Japheth and Shem, not just Shem. And Shem is not Israel. Japheth did live in the Tenting grounds of the American line of Shem's descendants.

Now if in fact Ham is the father of the black Nation's as it has been taught since before the birth of Christ (this is not a white supremest teaching by any means. this was a Hebrew teaching). This would put Hamite descendants as slaves to Japheth when they had lived in the tents of Shem. the only Historical record(not Biblical history I agree but where world history lines up with Bible I will take it) we have of Japheth's descendants living in the tents of Shem is the Japhethite Nations (England, France and Germany) conquering of What is called North America. There is another name a native one for North America I just don't remember it off hand. I will look and see if I can find that info.

you will notice Noah blessed Shem and Japheth for what they did. he blessed Shem with the Priesthood. and from him came the religions of Buddhism, Hinduism, Shamanism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam. These were all started by Shemite descendants.

And he blessed Japheth with enlarged lands. it was the Japheth Nations that traveled the world and colonized and brought it to where it was today. there is Archeological evidence of White nations from Northern to Southern China and Mongolia, white races found buried in tombs of South America 1,000 years before the Spanish, they are believed to be Roman descendants. There have even been findings of them in North America before Leif Erickson ventured down into the area of Maine.

"Israel is no where in the picture either at the point of Noah's cursing Canaan. you would really need to stretch that to make it fit Israel. Everyone living at that time would be considered Gentiles"

Ex. 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:
10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.
12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.
13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:
14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.

Brother Chette, if a poll were taken of each member of this forum of what is it about this forum gets on your nerves the most, I'm sure each of us would have things annoying to each of us. Mine is having to read the Scriptures for people, draw them a picture, and grieve at the personal and denominational glee many disconnect portions of the Scriptures from some places, and have a mortal fear of putting two verses together in other places.

"2)No one said anything about White American Gentiles."

Sure they did, Read the thread. There are people in this forum, there are people in this thread who believe the "curse" extends to this day, the Church Age, and that Negroes, all Negroes, are the "cursed", and have to step off the sidewalk into the gutter to let me pass. Dr. Ruckman, who is guru for so many in this forum in general believes it, he teaches it. His clones teach it Others who have never heard of him teach it. The Klan, the Aryan Brotherhood, Christian Identity, who know nothing of Christ nor being reconciled to God, sure know Genesis 9, or think they do.

For your information, my grandmother's grandfather was the largest and most brutal slave dealer in the tri-state area of Kentucky, Tennessee, and West Virginia in the mid-1800s, I know how blacks were treated, and no one on this planet, let alone this forum, can show one verse of Scripture to justify that brutality.

As Hitler said, beans is beans and schnapps is schnapps. There is only one "curse" that extends to this day, the curse Adam placed on the flesh of all of us the second week after Creation, yet this curse was taken away on the cross of Calvary. We may die physically, we will have immortality because He is Immortal.

Grace and peace Chette

Tony

[chette777]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

"Israel is no where in the picture either at the point of Noah's cursing Canaan. you would really need to stretch that to make it fit Israel. Everyone living at that time would be considered Gentiles"

Ex. 1:8 Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.
9 And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:
10 Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.
11 Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.
12 But the more they afflicted them, the more they multiplied and grew. And they were grieved because of the children of Israel.
13 And the Egyptians made the children of Israel to serve with rigour:
14 And they made their lives bitter with hard bondage, in morter, and in brick, and in all manner of service in the field: all their service, wherein they made them serve, was with rigour.

Brother Chette, if a poll were taken of each member of this forum of what is it about this forum gets on your nerves the most, I'm sure each of us would have things annoying to each of us. Mine is having to read the Scriptures for people, draw them a picture, and grieve at the personal and denominational glee many disconnect portions of the Scriptures from some places, and have a mortal fear of putting two verses together in other places.

"2)No one said anything about White American Gentiles."

Sure they did, Read the thread. There are people in this forum, there are people in this thread who believe the "curse" extends to this day, the Church Age, and that Negroes, all Negroes, are the "cursed", and have to step off the sidewalk into the gutter to let me pass. Dr. Ruckman, who is guru for so many in this forum in general believes it, he teaches it. His clones teach it Others who have never heard of him teach it. The Klan, the Aryan Brotherhood, Christian Identity, who know nothing of Christ nor being reconciled to God, sure know Genesis 9, or think they do.

For your information, my grandmother's grandfather was the largest and most brutal slave dealer in the tri-state area of Kentucky, Tennessee, and West Virginia in the mid-1800s, I know how blacks were treated, and no one on this planet, let alone this forum, can show one verse of Scripture to justify that brutality.

As Hitler said, beans is beans and schnapps is schnapps. There is only one "curse" that extends to this day, the curse Adam placed on the flesh of all of us the second week after Creation, yet this curse was taken away on the cross of Calvary. We may die physically, we will have immortality because He is Immortal.

Grace and peace Chette

Tony

I don't get it Tony, Maybe I missed something. I am reading the same scriptures as you.

Exodus 1 is not about Ham's son Canaan. if is about Shem's descendant Israel. Noah did not curse the son of Shem but the son of Ham the younger brother of Shem. How can Noah's cursing of Canaan In Genesis 9 be applied to the son of Shem, Israel in Exodus 1?

remember too we are not to rightly connect the word of truth but divide. I don't know how you connect the curse of Ham to Shem's descendants.

I admit to my mistake to lump all black's together in the cursing of Canaan descendants and that I will admit is wrong for now I realize not ALL Blacks can come from one group. But Archeology does support that the people who lived in Canaan before Israel were black headed and it isn't talking about hair color.

That brutality of slaves you relatives did in the 1800 was not as bad as that which was inflicted on Israel from Genesis 50 to Exodus 1. They had their baby boys cast into the river to drown or to be eaten by crocodiles. and many Egyptians at that time were black headed. it wasn't until the invasion by the Babylonian kings that white blood mixed to Egypt shortly after Israel left Egypt and Archeology shows that as well.

I agree all men were cursed with sin nature but that is not the only curse still extending to today. the ground is still cursed, women are still cursed with increase conceiving, and snakes still eat the dust of the earth.

[chette777]

Now I answered to Tony because he directed to me but Tony do to the hot nature of this thread I will not longer respond.