[chette777]

JohnG,

None of the teachers knew what was meant when they read Psalm 16:10 that is why Jesus said, "For as yet they knew not the scripture"

just believe what it says they knew not and Jesus Knew that they did not understand it.

he called them fools because they were slow of heart and again knew not what the prophets said concerning the resurrection of Jesus.

yes they should have known but they were blind to it. even Nicodemus did not know he was as blind as the rest.

JohnG don't read into scripture just simply read and believe. clarify words if need be but don't add that is what deceived Eve did.

it would have been best to start this discussion under a new thread title.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by chette777

Jen,

It is easy for some to hurl abuses and false claims than it is the exercise Charity. keep up the good work your husband should be really proud of you for the way you kept your confidence in the word and not in men, and your cool under fire.

you focus on his word and you will grow faster than some of these 60 plus year old's on this site.

blessing in his word

Chette,

You among others on this board have contributed to my growth in the word. I am blessed by the interaction and material presented in your posts. You and some others have a depth of scriptural knowledge that I like to be around.

I thank God for my husband. He taught me how to be more strong minded. Bragging about his scriptural understanding would be like bragging about myself so I won't.

He says don't argue with the nay-sayers. I naively thought that some people just didn't see so if I showed them the scriptures and how they fit together then they would believe. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be the case.

I have spent hours composing posts for this reason. I may have spent days trying to unravel and respond to the confusing posts of people who I have no idea of how their minds work. I've only ever experienced anything like this when I debated with liberals and socialists about politics or economics. This is much worse.

I was hoping for iron sharpeneth iron on this board but instead I've found my sword is still fresh from the forge and hasn't completely hardened yet. I'm also learning that swinging it continually into the miry clay is a waste of time and mud doesn't sharpen it much but you sure get mud-splattered in the process.

I haven't responded yet to brother George because I was saving that for last but now it's late.

blessing in his field,

Jen

[JOHN G]

I think we all agree this is the gospel Paul preached.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

What are the "scriptures" according to Paul? If they are the OT, then the OT contains the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luk 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

What scriptures? It must have been the OT.


Just becasue Nicodemus, the apostles, and others "knew not the scripture", doesn't mean it wasn't in the scriptures.


See also
Act 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Act 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

I don't think it was different John, according to these articles that is one of the errors of Hyper- or Ultra-dispensationalism:
http://www.angelfire.com/nt/books/hy...tionalism.html
http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/wrongly1.html

Ultimately, every believer will have to examine the scriptures and decide for themselves. This has proven to be a divisive topic, but fortunately many of us here can still respect one another and agree on other issues.

I could not agree more Brother Parrish, especially as long as we are given websites where Grace believers are called "heretics" because we do not follow what amounts to sacrements.

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

So, here I am, a saved man, and I have to be baptized in water, follow a Passover meal called the "Lord's supper", join a Baptist church, get a crewcut, burn my TV.

Why? What can I add to God's grace?

Ga 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

I got bad news for both Ironside and Dr. Ruckman's cult: neither one is going to have one single meteor more than any Grace believer in heavenly places. If Dr. Ruckman wants to be an elitist and a respecter of persons and teach his blinded followers that they are some kind of first class Christian while the rest of us sit in the cheap seats, he'll pay for it at the Judgement Seat. Soon as my new HP notebook arrives from DryCleaner Central, I'll be refuting Dr. Ruckman's wresting of Scripture and posting it in this forum, in this thread. Dr. Ruckman uses both Stam and Bullinger in his Commentaries and studies(he teaches word for word Bullinger's work on Biblical Numerics He must be one of them thar "heretics".

Sister Jennifer, what do they call those people, Hypnotists, Hypocratics, ah...

Hypocrites.

Brother Parrish, I'm sure you, Brother JohnG, and most of the rest in this forum will soon be cheerful little hyperdispensationalists. All you have to do is clear your head from that Catholic hangover you all have had for the last 600 years.

Grace and peace friends

A Hyperdispensationalist Of The Hyperdispensationalists

[greenbear]

Aloha, brother George!

Thank you for all of your incredibly kind words yesterday. To say that you have been a blessing to me is an understatement;through your keyboard you hold forth the word of life.

Submitting oneself to the Lord's order seems grievous to the natural man or woman but to the spiritual man or woman they are peace and joy.
Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
According to my prayer years ago as a new christian, the Lord provided me with a husband who cares about what the Lord says, not what man says. It's a wonderful thing to have headship like that.

My understanding has been that you have had concerns about a woman participating in board discussions about doctrine and bible study according to your interpretation of passages in 1 Tim and 1 Cor. Regardless, you call people on their false accusations and unkind words because you are honest and just. I expect that you and others on this board would feel free to point out anything I write that you disagree with just like you would anybody else. I think I've made it apparent I'm not too easily offended. And if I do get offended I come around pretty fast. I realize for some it's like letting your little sister play along with the big boys and I do appreciate it!

Though I had been expecting a "cheap shot" to come from somewhere (I definitely knew those whom it would not come from) it still hurts when it comes. I had decided I would never visit this board again when I saw JOHNG's unkind and dishonest post but I couldn't resist taking just one more little peek and I saw your post to me. You are so right when you say that other believers will always disappoint us at one time or another, we must keep our eyes focused on Christ for He is never unkind, He is always true and He never disappoints.

I had begun to write my comments to Ironside's 6 points like you did but I decided that wasn't worth my time, either. I have too many other more important things to do. I find myself in general agreement with you on the first five. Point four will take some study to determine the truth about that. The types of arguments he used are no different from what some people in the world use and they come from below. The Lord doesn't tell us to listen to the arguments of men but to search His word for the truth. He doesn't give us some vague fear of accepting false doctrines but He tell us to look to His word to find out what He says and even tells us how we are supposed to study His word. ... God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7

One could say that the definition of an hyper or ultradispensationalist is a dispensational system that goes beyond the point historically or scripturally that you do (the collective you). One thing is for sure, I will never be impressed by hypercritical and slanderous arguments. I am saddened, though, when others are influenced by them.

The body of Christ is one body, we belong to Him and if we belong to Him we will have love one to another.

Philippians 2:1-8 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

In His love,

Jennifer

[George]

Sister Jennifer said:

"My understanding has been that you have had concerns about a woman participating in board discussions about doctrine and bible study according to your interpretation of passages in 1 Tim and 1 Cor. Regardless, you call people on their false accusations and unkind words because you are honest and just. I expect that you and others on this board would feel free to point out anything I write that you disagree with just like you would anybody else. I think I've made it apparent I'm not too easily offended. And if I do get offended I come around pretty fast. I realize for some it's like letting your little sister play along with the big boys and I do appreciate it!"

Aloha sister Jennifer,

I didn't mean to leave the impression that women should not participate in discussions on the Forum (both my wife and daughter do). What I object to is the disrespect shown to men by some women that have come onto the Forum.

Obviously the Forum is NOT a "church", but that doesn't give some women the "EXCUSE" not to be respectful of men in general and especially men who may be elders/pastors, and who have been called of God to preach and teach God's Holy word.

Our society has been turning into a "Matriarchal" society for some time now (thanks to Humanism - Feminism foremost); and along with the "SHIFT" from a "Patriarchal" to a "Matriarchal" society has been the corresponding denigration, deprecation, and vilification of men (in general).

One of the things I have observed over the last 50 years is the lack of "respect" that many "westernized" Christian women (wives) have for their husbands. If a woman (wife) won't "respect" her husband, then she will be unwilling to submit to him and will refuse to obey him whenever she "thinks" she is "right" and he is "wrong". This runs "contrary" to God's order of things!

When God instituted marriage he made the man the head of the wife. Marriage is NOT A 50/50 "proposition" as all of the Humanist marriage "Guides" would have you believe. SOMEONE must be the "head", and if it is not the man - then it will be the woman! When "push comes to shove" - where a husband and wife disagree on a matter, and when a DECISION must be made, SOME ONE will have to make that decision; and if a woman is NOT willing to "submit" to her husband (in these kind of matters) she is out of God's order of things. {The "exceptions" being Physical Abuse, Drunkenness, Drugs, and Fornication.}

Now, when that kind of woman comes onto the Forum, since she has no respect for her husband, she will have no respect for the position that men hold in God's order of things. God does NOT "ORDAIN" women for the two legitimate "Offices" (bishops/elders/pastors and deacons) in the church (where men have some legitimate "spiritual" authority).

And although we (men) have no legitimate "spiritual" authority on the AV1611 Bible Forums, the Christian women who join the Forum, should still show some respect for the position that we men hold in God's order of things. I am not talking about "submitting" to us! A Christian wife has NO obligation to be in "submission" to ANY man (including pastors/elders) other than her own husband; but that does not preclude the necessity of practicing some common courtesy and extending some respect for the fact that since we are men, we are due some respect as men.

Now both you and sister Jassy (and my wife and daughter) have been excellent examples of how Christian women should conduct themselves on a Forum such as the AV1611 Bible Forums. You have expressed your beliefs in a courteous and civil manner and you have been considerate and polite in your conduct here. {I can't say that about some other women that have joined the Forum over the last year and a half. }

There are many reasons WHY Muslim men both HATE and FEAR Western civilization. One of them is the "feminization" of our culture to the point where men (in general) hold no "special place" in the home, or at work, or in society (as a whole). In our society men (in general) are portrayed either as "thoughtless bumbling fools" or as cold, callous, insensitive, unfeeling, and heartless beings that have no "feelings" of any kind.

I'm not into "respect-of-persons", but I believe that a Christian man who conducts himself decently and in order should be treated with some respect by Christian women. As a born again Christian man (and as an elder) I refuse to be treated disrespectfully by a "Christian" woman. If they get "out of order", I let them know in no uncertain terms, that I for one will NOT put up with their disrespect! Call me "old-fashioned"; call me "out-of-date"; call me a "dinosaur", or whatever; I refuse to "CONFORM" to the world in these matters!

I encourage both you and Jassy to keep Posting - perhaps your exemplary conduct will "rub off" on some of the other women that are currently posting, or on some women who would like to post here on the Forum.

[chette777]

I agree George. these Ladies are do the respect as a sister in the Lord. It is not to be any more or les than we would or should give a brother in the Lord who is on the forum.

[Cloudwalker]

Originally Posted by Diligent

I figure this is a good place to suggest a book that helps clarify what right dividing is.

One Book Rightly Divided

Every objection to Dispensationalism I have read in this thread is answered by Brother Stauffer in this book.

I've started and stopped several replies to posts by Winman because it gets so tiring to constantly answer objections that have already been dealt with in other threads, but perhaps reading a book by an author not on the forum, where no personal animosity exists, would be helpful.

Winman, if you're willing to consider the writings of Ironside to help you define your understanding, perhaps you should give a few hours to someone else to hear the other side of the matter.

Cool, I got Stauffer's book on SwordSearcher...thanks Bro, I'll have to check that one out soon.

[Jassy]

Brother George,

I just wanted to thank you for your kind words and tell you that they are appreciated. I have seen how things in society have changed gradually - especially since the 1960s and 1970s - and Westernized women have been demanding equal rights with men. This has spilled-over into the Church (the supposed Body of Christ) and I truly believe it is a slap in the face of our loving and wise Creator, Who has all WISDOM and has established roles for men and women in the Body of Christ.

Women should be under their husband UNLESS he is truly doing something completely contrary to God. And I believe that that is a very rare exception in the Body of Christ. And I'm convinced that some Christian women use that as an excuse for rebellion against their husband. I am not talking about disagreements regarding the budget or general household matters - these should be under the headship of the husband, unless he has delegated tasks to his wife that she is equipped to handle (such as balancing the checkbook, for example). Most arguments in marriage stem from the wife balking at the headship of her husband. This can definitely strain a marriage.

Respect of a husband, who the wife knows is UNDER the headship of Christ, should not be a grudging giving of respect. It ought to be a JOYFUL submission and a delightful TRUST for the wife with her husband.

I've seen so-called Christian marriages where the wife is definitely the "boss" and it is not a pretty sight to see them foolishly reversing their God-given roles!

Some Christian women seem to see this as a WEAK or powerless role. Who cares about being in POWER? The LORD is the one with the power! He is sovereign and it is His will that we ought to be doing.

I'm very pleased that we have so many godly brothers here to learn from.

Jassy