Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Brother Jerry, I didn't spend maybe a total of nine hours, with a partially severed finger, typing my responses to Tandi because I am mad at her or don't like her. She complains about being mocked, she never addresses the responses to her except to complain that someone has done something mean and nasty to her. When you can get a response from her it's usually some second hand SDA nonsense and the only Scripture she quotes is to again complain that she is being treated badly in the forum, "mocked", and "misrepresented".

So after almost 3 months I'm waiting for her to proclaim her position as I did from practically day one.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

Hello Tony,

I'm back after spending some time reading many of the older posts on this forum as requested. I am ready to "proclaim my position" if this would be allowed by Brandon. My husband and I distributed a tract we wrote a few years ago and I could post it on the forum in segments for your critique. I would welcome all critiques, although I anticipate much opposition. My position is solidly based on KJV Scriptures, though I am not of the "rightly dividing" dispensational persuasion as you know.

You also said:

My point? My point is that Paul rebuked the Corinthians because there were Judaizers in the church and I've written another small book in this message because sister Tandi, you are the Judaizer in this forum.

You're not? Then we can expect your renunciation of sabbath keeping, torah following, and shaloming in your next message.

I will stop with the shaloms per your request, but I am sorry I cannot renounce sabbath keeping or torah following in accordance with my strongly held, Biblical convictions. Jesus taught that we are to live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (Matt. 4:4; Luke 4:4) i.e., the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20). He did not say "Jews" shall live by these precepts, He said "Man" shall live by them. The word "torah" means "instruction." I find it delightful, not a burden, to follow God's instructions, and I especially call the Sabbath a delight (Isaiah 58:13-14).

To Brandon: In anticipation of the question, yes, I accept the KJV Bible as my final authority. All of my points will be made by quoting KJV verses only....no Greek or Hebrew.

May I proceed?

Tandi

[Luke]

Well, the thread is titled "bad tracts", so it seems like the appropriate place for it.

Originally Posted by Luke

Well, the thread is titled "bad tracts", so it seems like the appropriate place for it.

LOL!!....I do have a sense of humor, so I am not offended, even if you were serious.

Tandi

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Tandi

Hello Tony,

I'm back after spending some time reading many of the older posts on this forum as requested. I am ready to "proclaim my position" if this would be allowed by Brandon. My husband and I distributed a tract we wrote a few years ago and I could post it on the forum in segments for your critique. I would welcome all critiques, although I anticipate much opposition. My position is solidly based on KJV Scriptures, though I am not of the "rightly dividing" dispensational persuasion as you know.

You also said:



I will stop with the shaloms per your request, but I am sorry I cannot renounce sabbath keeping or torah following in accordance with my strongly held, Biblical convictions. Jesus taught that we are to live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (Matt. 4:4; Luke 4:4) i.e., the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20). He did not say "Jews" shall live by these precepts, He said "Man" shall live by them. The word "torah" means "instruction." I find it delightful, not a burden, to follow God's instructions, and I especially call the Sabbath a delight (Isaiah 58:13-14).

To Brandon: In anticipation of the question, yes, I accept the KJV Bible as my final authority. All of my points will be made by quoting KJV verses only....no Greek or Hebrew.

May I proceed?

Tandi

Tandi, I made no request on how to begin or end a message, God has made several to you through the Scripture that was quoted to you about being a Judaizer. What you post in this forum, the content of a given message and how you begin a message or conclude it, is between you and the webmaster. The only request I made personally was that you stop being a Judaizer, stop mixing Law and Grace, and stop making the cross of Christ of none effect and His sacrifice in vain, because every Scripture given to you by me and the others here demonstrated, along with your website, that this is exactly what you are doing.

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Whether you post a tract and it's interpreted by the webmaster as merely your position, or interpreted as an attempt to make converts to the Law and it's disallowed, is not up to me. If I request anything I want you to explain what the verse above from Galatians means. In your own words, or go to the Four Gospels and refuted it from the red letters. You can post as many tracts as Brandon allows you to, I'd myself rather hear from your mouth, from your heart, what your position is, in your own words, and not some prefab piece of literature you assembled 6 months, a year, 5 years ago, whatever.

Ro 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You didn't read those verses, did you? You scrolled down to see what else I had to say below them. Tandi, they just rolled right off you didn't they?

You need to be aware that the KJV is not the only purpose and topic of this forum. The people discussing the KJV and the doctrines and studies from it are all Christians who have been saved by the grace of God apart from the works of the law. I don't know if the false ecumenical spirit has survived you leaving Catholicism in that you think there are some of us who can be saved by following the Law and some of us who can be saved apart from it, both can't be true. Again, personally I think that if you feel you are right and we are all wrong, then you share a forum with damned souls. What you want in a forum of reprobates therefore is beyond me except maybe to convert some of us, or some passerby who just stops to read the forum?

Tandi my friend, ye needs gird up thy loins. I'm sure someone will jump your tract or your position like white on rice. If that happens, I told you. We are people who are saved by grace through faith, that not of ourselves, not of works, lest any of us boast.

1Co 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

I'm sure you'll be treated as politely as you have been previously. Go for it.

Grace and peace to you.

Tony

[katie ha-lakh]

I am new here but I would like to put 'my' two cents in on the subject of repentance. I am going to keep my sentences very simple as I am trying to understand if/how your definition of repentance is different than mine.

Let's look at why Christ died. Did he not become sin and die so that we could enter heaven without defiling it?

And in order to understand this, don't we have to admit to have sinned/that we are sinful creatures and that God hates our sin (it is an offense to Him).

And by understanding that God hates our sin, we have to acknowledge Him as the Ultimate Authority on the subject (and any subject) and hate our sin as well.

Isn't that essentially what repentance is? Isn't that turning from sin? We are weak so we may trip along the way, but knowing all the while these actions are wrong and gaining strength through much prayer and Bible reading.

Thus, I don't see how one can understand what Christ did for us if he doesn't understand that A: we are sinful and B: sin is an offense to God.

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

.......Tandi my friend, ye needs gird up thy loins. I'm sure someone will jump your tract or your position like white on rice. If that happens, I told you. We are people who are saved by grace through faith, that not of ourselves, not of works, lest any of us boast......


I'm sure you'll be treated as politely as you have been previously. Go for it.

Grace and peace to you.

Tony

Tony, I accept your challenge to “proclaim my position” and your encouragement to post my tract (more of a treatise) which I have updated. It represents my current views. I reference Scriptures from the Pauline epistles, as well as from elsewhere in God’s Holy Word. If I have not adequately covered my understanding of Galatians 2:21 in this treatise I will answer after you have digested my discourse.

As I have stated, this treatise represents my current views, which you asked for, and which I am not trying to force on others. I welcome all critiques and comments. If there are errors, please show me from Scripture. I am open to correction, as I hope we all are. I will post at Bible Studies in multiple installments.

I remind readers of my “statement of faith” which I posted previously on another thread:

I am fully trusting in the shed blood of Jesus Christ and His faithfulness for my salvation and have full assurance of my salvation, recognizing my shortcomings and eternally grateful for God's pardon (not acquittal) of my sins. (John 3:16)

Because I love Him, I keep His commandments (Exodus 20:6; Deut. 5:10; John 14:15; John 15:10).

Galatians is a book much misunderstood. It is talking about those trying to be JUSTIFIED by works of the law (especially circumcision and Jewish customs). I am JUSTIFIED by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ who pardoned my sins. I am not trying to earn my salvation in any way, any more than those of you who get baptized after conversion are trying to earn your way to Heaven by this act of obedience. (Habbakuk. 2:4; Romans 1:17)

One thing I have learned from studying the Hebraic perspective over the past 7 years is to think in terms of “this...and” rather than “either....or.” In other words, thinking in terms of building blocks (precept upon precept) rather than Greek-style linear thinking. Greek thinking tends to polarize into “if this is right, then that is wrong” rather than seeing nuance, subtle shades of meaning, and multiple facets of a topic, Scripture, or even a single word. This is why Paul is said to be hard to understand (2 Peter 3:16). Paul’s brilliant writings are full of nuance, word play, subtleties, Hebraisms, etc. In the final analysis, he does NOT contradict Peter, James, Jude, John, Luke, etc., and he most certainly does not contradict his Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ!

The treatise was originally published as a booklet that my husband and I distributed in 2004 as an offshoot of our Moss Patch Newsletter. My husband is editor-in-chief and approved this updated version of the message. It will also be posted on my blog if anyone would like to leave comments there.

Thank you for the opportunity to share my views.

Tandi

[Luke]

Originally Posted by katie ha-lakh

Isn't that essentially what repentance is? Isn't that turning from sin? We are weak so we may trip along the way, but knowing all the while these actions are wrong and gaining strength through much prayer and Bible reading.

One thing I am learning about God's grace is that it doesn't just save us. It sanctifies us too.

Our Bible reading should not be the source of our strength. Our prayer should not be the source of our strength. We should RECKON ourselves DEAD to sin and self, admitting we have NO strength. And then Christ, who is our LIFE, shall bring forth those fruits in us.

This is probably the major error that I see in Christianity today. Too many people, both Free Grace/Lordship Salvation whatever, see that sanctification is something to be worked towards through much strumbling, self denial etc etc. But it's already paid for, God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places, and the only person that gets in the way of those blessings is SELF.

So die, and let Christ live through you. Then the Bible reading will be fruitful. Then the prayer will be fruitful. Because it will be Christ giving the fruit.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by katie ha-lakh

I am new here but I would like to put 'my' two cents in on the subject of repentance. I am going to keep my sentences very simple as I am trying to understand if/how your definition of repentance is different than mine.

Let's look at why Christ died. Did he not become sin and die so that we could enter heaven without defiling it?

And in order to understand this, don't we have to admit to have sinned/that we are sinful creatures and that God hates our sin (it is an offense to Him).

And by understanding that God hates our sin, we have to acknowledge Him as the Ultimate Authority on the subject (and any subject) and hate our sin as well.

Isn't that essentially what repentance is? Isn't that turning from sin? We are weak so we may trip along the way, but knowing all the while these actions are wrong and gaining strength through much prayer and Bible reading.

Thus, I don't see how one can understand what Christ did for us if he doesn't understand that A: we are sinful and B: sin is an offense to God.

Katie, this is a good example of the Bible as it's own dictionary and the rule of First Mention. The first Person to repent in the Bible was God:

Ge 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

To repent is simply to change your mind. God made man and man turned out to be so sorry and corrupt that God was sorry He ever made man, and it has to be pretty bad to grieve God at heart.

Here are two more examples of "repenting" and "repentance" being a change of mind:

Ex 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

Ex 13:17 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:

Exodus 32 God is ready to put a hurtin' on Israel and He changed His mind. In Exodus 13 Israel was not ready to fight a war, too fresh out of Egypt they were not hardened by the sojourn and had they saw the fierceness of the Philistines they would have changed their minds and fled back to the relative safety of Egypt.

In John 8, before the cricifixion, we are told:

John 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Did she? If she didn't, she loved the "lifestyle" too much and died in her sins. She did, because she changed her mind about herself and her sin.


"Repentance" is changing your mind from yourself towards God through the gospel of Christ.

2Co 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Being sorry for your sins in not repentance. Sorrow for your sins, for your unsaved status as a sinner, leads you to repentance, to a change of mind from yourself towards God. This leads us to:

Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Some who wish to force us back under the Law say belief is a "work". This verse in Romans demonstrates a difference, two distinct and separate precepts. (...but...")

I hope this helps.

Grace and peace Katie

Tony