Hope you dont mind, but heres a study I have been working on as to romans 9..

The enemy of the gospel of Gods Free Sovereign Grace is under attack more than ever in this day and time we live in. The Fact that the bible teaches God is Free and Sovereign in the administration of His mercy and salvation, Is eclipsed with the man exalting concept that man has the freewill, hence man is sovereign in his own salvation being he at anytime may utilize his freewill and get saved.

But May God be true and all men liars..

One of the chapters in the bible that testifies to Gods absolute Sovereigny to save whom ever he will, and with hold Salvation from whomever He will is taught in romans 9..

The devil has been busy though in sending his servants to corrupt and change the truth into a lie..

One of the ways this is being strategically done is by men saying that romans 9 is not talking about individual salvation but corporate election only..This however is not true, and by the grace of God, I will set out to prove that yes indeed romans 9 is talking about individual salvation..

First of all the whole context of the book of romans is grounded and centered in salvation, in fact, it is the gospel of Jesus christ set forth in its theological framework. It has themes such as mans depravity and inability , unconditional election, particular atonement, effectual call, preservation of the saints , deity of christ, and the mystery of israel and the church. All of which are vital gospel truthes for the elect of God, and the salvation of their souls..

Now, the book as I said is premised on salvation as we see from perhaps the verses that so aptly lay out the theme of the book rom 1:5-17


15So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

This is a gospel that is from God to his elect or called ones. rom 1:

6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

rom 1:


1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Now moving right along to the 9th chapter we find the following..

vs 1-5

1I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

The concern here is that there apparently seemed to be something gone wrong here in that the pauls kinsmen in the flesh the physical Jew , were not for the most part expriencing salvation , and appeared to be foresaken of God , abandoned.. This caused paul apparently some sorrow of heart and heaviness.

And I see nothing wrong with wishful thinking , as it pertains to the salvation of friends and family, or those to whom God has caused us to fell close to..Paul had a natural affinity for his kinsmen in the flesh..

I dont know if this was sinful on pauls behalf or not, but in light of this it would be later that he suffered mightly from these his kinsmen..

2 cor 11:

24Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

Note; God will ween his children from all inordinate affection..

The reason for this is because it was suggested that paul went a little too far in saying he could wish to be accursed from christ for his brethern sake according to the flesh..and if that is what he really meant, he was definitly wrong for that thought and God chastised him good..with those very jews he had such passion for..

But getting back to the subject, the perplexity was salvation being with held from the jews or Israel according to the flesh.

It was no secret that God had singled out this nation for national prominence from what we read in vs4-5

4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
It had appeared that in light of all israels past glory as Gods favoured people and the promises made to israel , that these promises have now fallen to the ground, and His covenant people set aside..

But paul sets out to resolve this issue by first stating, in vs 6:

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

He first says, all israel [ the true spiritual israel of God] is not of national israel

Paul was saying that all the salvaic[ covenant ] promises of God were not directed to Israel as a nation but to a spiritual israel within the nation. Those who are the foreknown according to Gods eternal purpose in christ..rom 11:

2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

So paul first dispelling of the problem is that all israel is not from your country israel..

Next he goes on to explain further his point about not the national people where the original focus, but God had an eye to a people within a people..He proves this further in vs:7-9


7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. 9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

As we know abe had two sons , one was name ishmael and the other issach..God made a choice to whom the heir of the covenant promises would be, and it was Isaach not ishmael..In fact at one point the inspired writer totally disregarded ishmael and was moved to write:

gen 22:

16And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

Question ? Was not ishmael abes son ?

But the point is this, that those who belong to the covenant are like isaach was children of promise..What does this mean ? It means , that those who are Gods true israel , their births are brought about by the bare promise of Gods word alone..You see issach was a promised child by God when human effort was not a option for this to be accomplished..note:

gen 18:

9And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.

10And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
11Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
12Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
13And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old? 14Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

So in actuality it was not possible physically for sarah to have a child on her own..

But this child was to brought about my the onipotence and power of God notice vs 14 a

Is any thing too hard for the LORD?

Issachs birth was by the promise of God, not human will..

So like wise is the true jew, he or she are children of promise..It was promised to christ prophetically that a seed shall serve him..

ps 22:

30A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

cp isa 53:

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

so the true israel are as Isaach recieve their spirtual birth by Gods promise, and james alludes to this in james 1:


17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth[ or promise], that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

God The Holy Spirit gives newbirth to the heirs of promise at his Sovereign appointed pleasure..jn 3:

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

i emphasize appointed time because this was the terminology God used to abe and sarah : gen 18:

14Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.

so paul goes on to tell the galatians that true believers are appointed just as isaach was appointed..

gal 4:

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

end of part 1

[Biblestudent]

Can't find "sovereign grace" in the Bible.

Then you must still need eyes to see..grace is said to reign as a king, a sovereign..rom 5:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord

The word reign in the greek is

basileuō meaning #1.to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign

#2.to exercise the highest influence, to control

THE

FALSE SAVIOR:

FREE WILL



It is commonly taught that Jesus Christ gave His life for all mankind without exception. It is said that due to this, it is now POSSIBLE for every sinner to have eternal life. But the possession of this eternal life is conditioned upon the sinner deciding for Christ or accepting Christ of his own free will. According to this system of teaching, Jesus did not actually save any one when He died and rose again. He merely made salvation POSSIBLE.

Let us, however, examine this teaching. According to this system, Jesus died EQUALLY for the sinner who rejected Him as f or the sinner who accepted Him. One will, however, wind up in hell and the other in heaven. But what decides that one will end up in heaven? Is it what Jesus did for him? NO! For according to this teaching, Christ did the same for the man in hell. Therefore, the unavoidable conclusion is that the one is in heaven because of WHAT HE DID, because of his free will decision to accept Christ. Hence, the decisive factor in a man's having eternal life is his own free will. NOT JESUS CHRIST! This makes free will the actual saviour. But this is a false saviour!

First, no unsaved sinner is willing to accept Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul says that all men be they Jew or Gentile are "under sin" (Rom. 3.9). In that condition Paul further describes them: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one” (Rom. 3.10‑12). That certainly does not sound like a group of people yearning to accept Christ as their personal Saviour! According to this passage, all men do evil. "There is none that doeth good." Jesus Christ said: "Every one that doeth evil HATETH the light, NEITHER COMETH TO THE LIGHT, lest his deeds should be reprove& (John 3.20). No sinner is going to f freely accept what he hates. He does NOT come to the light!

But does not a sinner have a free will? Indeed he does! And the freedom of that will is identified in Rom. 6.20: "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free FROM righteousness." The sinner's will is free FROM, not TO righteousness. Hence, any choices he makes with his will are away from righteousness rather than for righteousness. With a will that is free from righteousness, a sinner will not choose Jesus Christ, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jer. 23.6).

Secondly, Jesus did not come merely to make salvation and eternal life a possibility to be decided by the sinner's will. He came to save. Notice Mat. 1.21: "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he SHALL save his people from their sins." The verse says, "He SHALL save," not "try to save" or "possibly save." That expression "shall save" is just as sure of accomplishment as "she SHALL bring forth a son" or "thou SHALT call his name JESUS."

Observe that Jesus saves "his people." Jesus further identifies "his people" as "all that the Father giveth me." Note: "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but raise it up again at the last day" (John 6.38‑39). Mind that the Father's will is that Jesus should lose none of those given to Him. Jesus came to do that will. And He did it! In John 17.4 Jesus said, "I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." Speaking of His Father Jesus said, "I do ALWAYS those things that please him" (John 8.29). Therefore, Jesus saved every soul God gave Him to save. He lost none of them. He did the Father's will!

Jesus Christ gave His life for the sheep (John 10.11). These sheep are the same as "all that the Father giveth me." Speaking of the sheep Jesus said: "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all" (John 10.29). The sheep do not include every human being without exception. John 10.26 says: "But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP!" Thus, Christ did not give Himself for those addressed in these words. He gave Himself for the sheep, for "his people," for all that the Father gave Him. And in so doing He saved them in fulfilment of the Father's will. The sheep are designated as "God's elect in Rom. 8.33. Because of Christ's death for them, no charge can be laid against them. "They shall never perish" (John 10.28)!

Therefore, it is not the execution of the free will of the sinner that secures for him salvation and eternal life. It is rather the execution of the Father's will by Jesus Christ. Jesus ALONE is the Saviour. He BY HIMSELF purged sins (Heb. 1.3). No wonder then that when speaking of the new birth, the Bible says that men are born "NOT of blood, nor of THE WILL of the flesh, nor of THE WILL of man, BUT OF GOD' (John 1.13). No wonder then that when Paul spoke of how men are God's children, he said: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL," not "your free will," but "HIS WILL" (Eph. 1.5)!

— Pastor Ben J. Mott, Jr.

Beloved:
I agree its not by our will but God's will, if we are trusting in our own will we are trusting in the flesh.
jim

Originally Posted by grace to me

THE

FALSE SAVIOR:

FREE WILL



It is commonly taught that Jesus Christ gave His life for all mankind without exception. It is said that due to this, it is now POSSIBLE for every sinner to have eternal life. But the possession of this eternal life is conditioned upon the sinner deciding for Christ or accepting Christ of his own free will. According to this system of teaching, Jesus did not actually save any one when He died and rose again. He merely made salvation POSSIBLE.

Let us, however, examine this teaching. According to this system, Jesus died EQUALLY for the sinner who rejected Him as f or the sinner who accepted Him. One will, however, wind up in hell and the other in heaven. But what decides that one will end up in heaven? Is it what Jesus did for him? NO! For according to this teaching, Christ did the same for the man in hell. Therefore, the unavoidable conclusion is that the one is in heaven because of WHAT HE DID, because of his free will decision to accept Christ. Hence, the decisive factor in a man's having eternal life is his own free will. NOT JESUS CHRIST! This makes free will the actual saviour. But this is a false saviour!

First, no unsaved sinner is willing to accept Jesus Christ. The apostle Paul says that all men be they Jew or Gentile are "under sin" (Rom. 3.9). In that condition Paul further describes them: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one” (Rom. 3.10‑12). That certainly does not sound like a group of people yearning to accept Christ as their personal Saviour! According to this passage, all men do evil. "There is none that doeth good." Jesus Christ said: "Every one that doeth evil HATETH the light, NEITHER COMETH TO THE LIGHT, lest his deeds should be reprove& (John 3.20). No sinner is going to f freely accept what he hates. He does NOT come to the light!

But does not a sinner have a free will? Indeed he does! And the freedom of that will is identified in Rom. 6.20: "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free FROM righteousness." The sinner's will is free FROM, not TO righteousness. Hence, any choices he makes with his will are away from righteousness rather than for righteousness. With a will that is free from righteousness, a sinner will not choose Jesus Christ, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jer. 23.6).

Secondly, Jesus did not come merely to make salvation and eternal life a possibility to be decided by the sinner's will. He came to save. Notice Mat. 1.21: "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he SHALL save his people from their sins." The verse says, "He SHALL save," not "try to save" or "possibly save." That expression "shall save" is just as sure of accomplishment as "she SHALL bring forth a son" or "thou SHALT call his name JESUS."

Observe that Jesus saves "his people." Jesus further identifies "his people" as "all that the Father giveth me." Note: "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but raise it up again at the last day" (John 6.38‑39). Mind that the Father's will is that Jesus should lose none of those given to Him. Jesus came to do that will. And He did it! In John 17.4 Jesus said, "I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." Speaking of His Father Jesus said, "I do ALWAYS those things that please him" (John 8.29). Therefore, Jesus saved every soul God gave Him to save. He lost none of them. He did the Father's will!

Jesus Christ gave His life for the sheep (John 10.11). These sheep are the same as "all that the Father giveth me." Speaking of the sheep Jesus said: "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all" (John 10.29). The sheep do not include every human being without exception. John 10.26 says: "But ye believe not, because YE ARE NOT OF MY SHEEP!" Thus, Christ did not give Himself for those addressed in these words. He gave Himself for the sheep, for "his people," for all that the Father gave Him. And in so doing He saved them in fulfilment of the Father's will. The sheep are designated as "God's elect in Rom. 8.33. Because of Christ's death for them, no charge can be laid against them. "They shall never perish" (John 10.28)!

Therefore, it is not the execution of the free will of the sinner that secures for him salvation and eternal life. It is rather the execution of the Father's will by Jesus Christ. Jesus ALONE is the Saviour. He BY HIMSELF purged sins (Heb. 1.3). No wonder then that when speaking of the new birth, the Bible says that men are born "NOT of blood, nor of THE WILL of the flesh, nor of THE WILL of man, BUT OF GOD' (John 1.13). No wonder then that when Paul spoke of how men are God's children, he said: "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of HIS WILL," not "your free will," but "HIS WILL" (Eph. 1.5)!

— Pastor Ben J. Mott, Jr.

Beloved:
I agree its not by our will but God's will, if we are trusting in our own will we are trusting in the flesh.
jim

Yes and furthermore, Jesus christ death burial, and resurrection saved all those given to him of the father.

The true gospel should announce that the election of grace or those given to christ by the father are saved..

The Holy Spirit reveals to whomever the elect are, their finished accomplished, salvation..

eph 1:

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The salvation is theirs by Inheritance, before they believe it..

The salvation is theirs by Inheritance, before they believe it..[/QUOTE]

AMEN

Originally Posted by grace to me

The salvation is theirs by Inheritance, before they believe it..

AMEN[/QUOTE]


Yes sir hebrews 1:

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Now as we continue the Romans 9 study, we see that Paul in explaining what seems to be a perplexity as to why the Jews are being excluded , most of them, as individuals of that nation. He explains that not all Jews from that nation are truly Jews [ spiritually] rom 2:



28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



This is the beginning of unfolding a mystery that the ethnic jew did not know or understand..



So, Gods promises to the jews have not fell to the ground as rom 3:



1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?



The unbelief of the non elect national jews, does not nullify the Faithfulness of God to the true spiritual jew, of the election of grace. All the abrahamic promises are sure to all the seed..



No sir, God is being faithful to Israel but just not the Israel you think..



He shows a distinction in Isaac vs 7-9



Now he goes on to show another distinction and sovereign display, this time with Isaacs offspring, because he had just said that the covenant promises were in Isaac, but there is still more..



Isaacs offspring vs 10-13



10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.



Here Paul continues his thought and explanation of seemingly the Jews being left out overlooked in salvation.



Even though he showed a sovereign choice made by God with abes children, he shows one now with Isaacs's children, who unlike Ishmael, not having the same mother, some may think, well yeah, God choose Isaac because Ishmaels mom was a heathen handmaid. but Paul dispels this thinking by showing Gods Sovereign choice of Individuals by the same parents, both mother and father..



This choice rested soley on God's "He whicheth calleth", and not on foreseen good or evil of the individuals..or works of the individuals..



This call proceeds from Gods eternal purpose alone..



2 tim 1:



9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,



Notice here in the above verse the phrase not according to our works and its relation to calling and in rom 9:11 and the phrase not of works and calling.



It should be plain to see, that calling is regards to salvation according to Gods eternal purpose. and election



God made a choice of Jacob over Esau to be the recipient of the covenantal love he displays in salvation..



No one can have a claim on Gods love in Christ Jesus, its only at Gods discretion. Esau was excluded from the covenant love of God, so scripture says he was hated.. If God loves you he saves you..



rev 1:



5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,



Gods loving one and washing away their sins are one and the same. They are married and cannot be separated, what God has Joined together let no man put asunder, lest thou be found a liar..



He does this because he paid the price for our sins, so God is The father is pleased and pacified, now nothing is left but for the loved ones, the washed ones, the forgiven ones, is to hear the good news of it, thats the gospel..



People dont be fooled by the false teachers saying this passage is speaking of nations and not individuals, that cannot be further from the truth, Jacob and Esau first and foremost were individuals ,and this what was happening affected them individually..



now we see why God is oft times called the God Jacob



ps 145:



5Happy is he[ singular] that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:



ps 75:



9But I will declare for ever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob.



david recognized a sovereign God of a particular people..



He was humble too there was a time he made this request :



ps 106:



4Remember me, O LORD, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;

5That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may

glory with thine inheritance.



1pet 2:



9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;



David acknowledges that God is a God of a chosen people and wishes and desires the salvation for that people..



Now david had all the right to probably consider himself chosen, but probably because of sin he humbles himself and seeks salvation from the God of a chosen people..He truly represents an expression of what paul terms in titus 1:



1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;



Amen, David had the gift of the Faith of Gods elect..



So God has not forgotten His salvation promises to Israel, but they are being fulfilled to the true Israel of God..



God is Sovereign in whose the recipients of this salvation,



Isaac and not Ishmael , and jacob and not easu..



When a person or persons are excluded outside of the covenant love of God, is being hated by God, so much so , you are not even considered a people as we see in, #1 The holy spirits exclusion of acknowledging Ishmael as a son of abe gen 22:



12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.



# 2 Esau finding no repentance, God gives repentance to those He loves..



heb 11:



17For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears



God is never termed, the God of Esau, as His chosen brother has the great honor of God being called:



ps 20:



1The LORD hear thee in the day of trouble; the name of the God of Jacob defend thee;



#3 people who are outside of covenant promises are



not a people at all to God..



eph 2:



11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:



This still applies today if you are not a elect , outside of the new covenant blessings, for only the spiritual israel benefit from..heb 8:



6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7For if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:



That means , all who are not of this chosen spiritual israel are excluded as it was in ot times when the heathen gentile nations were excluded..



Now, look at vs rom 9 vs 14



14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.



Thats right, paul expected this reaction from them whom he testified the truth to..



we know Paul was not Armenian , and we know what he taught went against Armenian freewill philosophy by the very objection he is prepared to meet with..



If this is the case says the humanist, is not their unrighteousness with God ?



Note: depraved human nature has not changed since the days of Paul in negative reaction to the truth of God..



also, we must reckon that Paul gave the truth of unconditional election to all he had opportunity to, regardless if they were converted or not. He must have, because it seems he was ready for the response of natural thinking men. Which claim God is unrighteous and shows respect of persons, when this truth is testified to. So I disagree with those who say unconditional election should not be spoken of to the unconverted. Apparently Paul spoke often of it to all. which agrees with acts 28:



30And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

31Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.



Unconditional election is a gospel of the kingdom truth , and paul taught all that came in unto him, no doubt many came out of curiosity and just wanted to hear what this man was talking about, but paul was faithful and held back nothing for the fear of man..



acts 20:



20And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,

21Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

22And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:

23Save that the Holy Ghost witnessed in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26Wherefore I take you to record this day that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.



so in conclusion this section gives us more proof that paul is speaking about individual salvation because of the response he anticiaptes as God being unfair if unconditional election is true without regard to the individuals persons of good or evil as just illustrated in vs 10-14



end of pt 2

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by grace to me

THE
FALSE SAVIOR:
FREE WILL

Just curious: if there is no free will, why get upset over people believing they have free will? (You might need to read that twice.)


I am still interested in what you "do" with:

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Is this word empty, null, and void?

Finally, have you read The Other Side of Calvinism by Lawrence Vance?

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by beloved57

Then you must still need eyes to see..grace is said to reign as a king, a sovereign..rom 5:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord

The word reign in the greek is

basileuō meaning #1.to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign

#2.to exercise the highest influence, to control

1. Then sin is sovereign?
2. Going to the Greek?