[hollister]

Hi all~

I joined because I'm confused. I have a Cambridge KJV that is truly the KJV and I'm very happy with it (I use it for church, primarily). I also have a Thompson Chain Ref. that I love, however, after perusing this site and a few others, I realize that some things have been changed. I thought this was minor (the changes i.e. sin to sins, etc.), but am now beginning to wonder. Are there any Study Bibles/Reference Bibles that are considered to be true King James? I found one from a link from this site, but it says the study notes are from CI Scofield? I don't know who this is, and if this is a good thing or not. For what it's worth, I am a Baptist (fundamental/independent) so would prefer notes that are along those lines. Any guidance? Much appreciated~Hollister.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by hollister

Hi all~

I joined because I'm confused. I have a Cambridge KJV that is truly the KJV and I'm very happy with it (I use it for church, primarily). I also have a Thompson Chain Ref. that I love, however, after perusing this site and a few others, I realize that some things have been changed. I thought this was minor (the changes i.e. sin to sins, etc.), but am now beginning to wonder. Are there any Study Bibles/Reference Bibles that are considered to be true King James? I found one from a link from this site, but it says the study notes are from CI Scofield? I don't know who this is, and if this is a good thing or not. For what it's worth, I am a Baptist (fundamental/independent) so would prefer notes that are along those lines. Any guidance? Much appreciated~Hollister.

Hollister, don't become dependent on ANY "study Bible". For one, as the years pass the chain references run out as do the study notes. Stay away from the NKJV, and the "New Scofield" of 1967. Neither are KJVs. The best "study" Bible is Swordsearcher, it allows you to make your own study notes. It's worth 100 times it's price. I received one as a gift, it's the nicest gift I ever got in my life.

Take some time and go to this link, study Brother George's little course here from start to finish, I copied it as HTML files. This is a very good foundation to start:

http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/kingjamesbible.htm

There are others in this forum who will guide you, I just don;t know any study bibles, I never used them and am past the need of them. Before you invest in a study Bible, I'd get a copy of Swordsearcher for your computer. Brandon did this one up right.

I'll post a message I wrote to a man on studying the bible for yourself, glean what is useful to you from it.

Grace and peace, and don't hesitate to to call on us, that's what this forum is for.

Grace and peace to you.

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by hollister

Hi all~

I joined because I'm confused. I have a Cambridge KJV that is truly the KJV and I'm very happy with it (I use it for church, primarily). I also have a Thompson Chain Ref. that I love, however, after perusing this site and a few others, I realize that some things have been changed. I thought this was minor (the changes i.e. sin to sins, etc.), but am now beginning to wonder. Are there any Study Bibles/Reference Bibles that are considered to be true King James? I found one from a link from this site, but it says the study notes are from CI Scofield? I don't know who this is, and if this is a good thing or not. For what it's worth, I am a Baptist (fundamental/independent) so would prefer notes that are along those lines. Any guidance? Much appreciated~Hollister.

Hollister, this is a message I wrote to a man named Nehemiah, he wasn't here long, some of us think he was recruiting for one of these pre-Adamic Race cults. I'm sure he never read it, course the message is still valid. I hope you are able to glean much from it.

Grace and peace

Tony

===============================================

Nehemiah, Part Two. How To Study The Bible For Yourself
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Nehemiah, all of the men in this thread have approched your questions from the different directions of our individual personalities, however our common foundation is the Scriptures, and where you will find any answer God wishes you to know. He has not yet revealed to me the significance and similitudes of John 5 and the angel, He will if it serves His glory through me. I would ask that you read every reply to you, we are not working against each other here, but compliment each other.

We KJV "Only"s are accused of "double inspiration". Actually, Scripture teaches that God gave the original contant of the Scriptures by inspiration, He preserves His words via copies and translations when the writing material wears out and the languages die, and then His Spirit gives our spirits understanding by His inspiration; That's triple inspiration:

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Why is it, as The Original Manuscript Frauds like to bleat and call us, why is it we KJV "Onlys" are such "jack-booted Nazis" about changing one word in the Scriptures? You lose the references if you do:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isa 28:13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Mr 10:5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

We see above that there are precepts given by God, and precepts given by men in Matthew 10.

Ho 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
De 4:16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
Ro 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Jas 3:9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Ge 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
e 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Ge 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The Scriptures interpret themselves and answer your questions for you. We look for types, for similitudes, for images and figures. How do I know that we, the Church, the Body of Christ will not have to endure the Tribulation?

Mt 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Lu 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Jesus Christ identifies the Tribulation as "the wrath to come", Paul assures us that we will not have to endure this.

Who is the future Anti-Christ, the Beast?

Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

One apostle was "lost", Judas Iscariot, and Paul identifies him as the Anti-Christ. Jesus and Paul make a pretty good team, don't they?

2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Your statement that "common sense" is unScriptural is in itself unScriptural. None of the men in this thread are exactly alike, we are "common" in that we all have "common" sense, a sound mind.

Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Mt 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Mt 2:7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
Mt 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
Mt 2:10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.

Re 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Re 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Re 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Re 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

So we see that from the Scriptures above, the "star" of Bethlehem that Paul Crouch has wasted so much electricity on speculating and selling books on saying that the "star" was a "comet" or "Saturn" is in actuality an angel.

What are the "seven spirits" of Revelation 3:1? I'm very glad you asked yourself that question:

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

How did the apostle Paul die? "Tradition' tells us he was executed. "Tradition" tells us Mary was a perpetual virgin too.

Paul was imprisoned in Mamertine Prison, in a pit with a grate for a roof where the guards could walk back and forth and defacate and urinate on the prisoners if they felt like it.

2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

I am ready for another abdominal surgery, it is needed, the time is here for it, but perhaps the physical therapy will make surgery redundant:

2Ti 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.
2Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Paul died of an infection such as pneumonia or other from the unsanitary conditions present in his incarceration. He suffered from the cold, and myself having had pneumonia 21 times in my life can attest to being cold and wanting a "cloke".

I hope you'll carefully study each and every Scripture passge given to you and wish you the best a Christian a can wish for another: That you bear much fruit that He may increase, we may decrease.

Grace and peace to you Nehemiah, this day, and all days.

Tony

[peopleoftheway]

Hey there Holister, the Thompson Chain reference Bible is fine, there is nothing wrong with using it, it is more of an aid to compare and search rather than study, although in this electronic age, we can use a much better study aid called swordsearcher which has the Thompson Chain reference topics within it.
The Scofield Bible is fine as long as its the "old" Scofield. As Brother Bones said, don't get to caught up with "study" Bibles, there is nothing wrong with them of course, but then the study would be someone elses thoughts, not your own.

[Samuel]

hollister.

If you are fundamental Baptist, you will be perfectly happy with Scofields notes. In fact! some years ago the Scofield Bible wore the nickname, of "Baptist Bible".

I would recommend the Old Scofield edition, if you can find it. Well you can definitely find it online, but I never buy anything that way, so I had a hard time. There is a Scofield lll edition, it has the 1769 KJV text also, but has the additional notes from the 1967 New Scofield included.
Some might not like that, but it is a really in depth study Bible for those who want to go that way. Loads of in text maps, and handy information, much like an Open Bible in format, if you have ever seen one of those.

[George]

Originally Posted by hollister

Hi all~

I joined because I'm confused. I have a Cambridge KJV that is truly the KJV and I'm very happy with it (I use it for church, primarily). I also have a Thompson Chain Ref. that I love, however, after perusing this site and a few others, I realize that some things have been changed. I thought this was minor (the changes i.e. sin to sins, etc.), but am now beginning to wonder. Are there any Study Bibles/Reference Bibles that are considered to be true King James? I found one from a link from this site, but it says the study notes are from CI Scofield? I don't know who this is, and if this is a good thing or not. For what it's worth, I am a Baptist (fundamental/independent) so would prefer notes that are along those lines. Any guidance? Much appreciated~Hollister.

Aloha brother Hollister,

I want to welcome you to the AV1611 Bible Forums. And I hope we haven't been the cause of your confusion. On a Forum such as this, you are going to get a lot of differing "opinions", most of which are not meant to "confuse" a believer, but some of which may.

Brother Steven (peopleoftheway) has given you some excellent advise, and I am in complete agreement with brother tonybones2112 advise:

"Hollister, don't become dependent on ANY "study Bible". For one, as the years pass the chain references run out as do the study notes. Stay away from the NKJV, and the "New Scofield" of 1967. Neither are KJVs."

I can't speak to the rest of brother bones' advise because he is recommending my "study" and, although I am in complete agreement with him about SwordSearcher, I am a tad bit "biased" - since Brandon Staggs happens to be my son-in-law. And so you will have to check those things out for yourself to see if brother Bones' judgment is accurate.

A word of caution on the Scofield Reference Bible (if you get one), make sure it is the "Old" Scofield Reference Bible and NOT any other Scofield Reference Bible {too much "confusion" in regards to the "New Scofield bibles": i.e - Are they truly Scofield Reference Bibles, or not? Are they truly King James Bibles, or not?} To avoid the "confusion", and to insure that you are getting "C. I. Scofield's" work (and not the "works" of some scholars who are trying to "ride" on the popularity of a departed saint of God) make sure you get the "Old" Scofield.

The very idea that a group of "Christian" scholars could take the legacy (i.e. Scofield's own study notes, etc.) of a departed servant of God and re-write some of his work and still call it a "SCOFIELD" Reference Bible; and then CHANGE parts of THE TEXT of the HOLY BIBLE and STILL call it a King James Bible, is indicative of just how far modern "bible scholars" (scholarship) has SUNK when it comes to HONESTY & INTEGRITY! And how far modern day "Christians" will STOOP to make a DOLLAR (off of a departed fellow brother in Christ - who can no longer object to the MISUSE of his life's work!)

After I got saved in October 1958 I attended services with the "brethren" churches for a while, and their Bible of choice was the Scofield Reference Bible (there was ONLY ONE at that time and it was a King James Text - OF COURSE!). I purchased one at that time and used it for about 10-12 years (although I never really relied on Scofield's notes). I also had a Thompson's Chain (which, once again, I never relied on his notes either).

Once I became aware of the "Which Bible" issue (1968) I stopped using "Reference" Bibles to read out of, and simply went to a "plain" (readable) King James Bible for my reading and study. About ten years later I stopped writing comments and nearly all references IN my Bible and instead I have used large yellow note pads for those purposes instead. If you are more "computer literate" than I am, SwordSearcher can be used in place of the yellow pads.

The following links are some comments that I have made on this Forum in regards to "Study" or "Reference" Bibles. I hope they may be of some help to you:

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...39&postcount=1
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...67&postcount=4
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...6&postcount=19

[Samuel]

Are they truly Scofield Reference Bibles, or not? Are they truly King James Bibles, or not?}

I mentioned the "Scofield lll" above, it is King James, no changes to the text of the 1917 Scofield version, 1769 Oxford.

It has all of Scofields original notes, and his complete study system (unchanged). In addition it also has some of the notes from the 1967 version, which are not Scofields, and a lot of extra but somewhat handy information along on the pages, in the form of text boxes. So you could not call it a true Scofield, but it is a true KJV.

Even the "Old Scofield" reprints you can find now, since none have been printed since 2003, and are out of print. Have some of the 1967 cross reference links, on the page center coulombs. But other than that the Bibles are exact copies of Scofields 1917 final edition. (his exact page layout unique in Ezekiel, and complete study system)

It is extremely hard to find any Bible today, that the printers could resist adding something modern to. Even the Cambridge Bibles, have been modernized.
They probably do this, so they can charge 50 to 60 dollars for them. Because the KJV is public domain, and cannot be charged for. But if you add some additional information, you can charge for that.

The best way I know is to buy a really cheap KJV pew Bible ($5.00), they will have no notes or any cross references, just the Oxford text (hopefully) check it to be sure. The $5.00 is to cover the cost of printing.

[George]

Originally Posted by Samuel

I mentioned the "Scofield lll" above, it is King James, no changes to the text of the 1917 Scofield version, 1769 Oxford.

It has all of Scofields original notes, and his complete study system (unchanged). In addition it also has some of the notes from the 1967 version, which are not Scofields, and a lot of extra but somewhat handy information along on the pages, in the form of text boxes. So you could not call it a true Scofield, but it is a true KJV.

Even the "Old Scofield" reprints you can find now, since none have been printed since 2003, and are out of print. Have some of the 1967 cross reference links, on the page center coulombs. But other than that the Bibles are exact copies of Scofields 1917 final edition. (his exact page layout unique in Ezekiel, and complete study system)

It is extremely hard to find any Bible today, that the printers could resist adding something modern to. Even the Cambridge Bibles, have been modernized.

The best way I know is to buy a really cheap KJV pew Bible ($5.00), they will have no notes or any cross references, just the Oxford text (hopefully) check it to be sure.

Aloha brother Samuel,

Thanks for the info on the Scofield Reference Bibles. Confusion! Modern day "Christians" just can't leave things alone! They just have to "IMPROVE" and "CHANGE" things - whether it be a dead man's WORK, or the TEXT of the HOLY BIBLE! And if that were not bad enough - they try to "pass-off" their ALTERED work as being the GENUINE ARTICLE!

What you have said about a simple King James Bible is so true. It's so hard to find a Bible without a whole bunch of "helps" in it. One of the best places I have found for locating a King James Bible (minus the "helps") is on e-Bay - where people are selling older (used & unused) King James Bibles; many of which are in good to excellent shape (and many with leather covers), and which are without all of the additional "helps".

One of the most reasonably priced places for brand new King James Bibles is Bible Truth Publishers http://bibletruthpublishers.com/BTP/Default.aspx
They sell only King James Bibles and give excellent discounts on case lots of King James Bibles (Pew Bibles, etc.).

[Fredoheaven]

Originally Posted by hollister

Hi all~

I joined because I'm confused. I have a Cambridge KJV that is truly the KJV and I'm very happy with it (I use it for church, primarily). I also have a Thompson Chain Ref. that I love, however, after perusing this site and a few others, I realize that some things have been changed. I thought this was minor (the changes i.e. sin to sins, etc.), but am now beginning to wonder. Are there any Study Bibles/Reference Bibles that are considered to be true King James? I found one from a link from this site, but it says the study notes are from CI Scofield? I don't know who this is, and if this is a good thing or not. For what it's worth, I am a Baptist (fundamental/independent) so would prefer notes that are along those lines. Any guidance? Much appreciated~Hollister.

Hello bro Hollister, I am also new to this forum. Primarily, study bibles like the Old Scofield, The Thompson-Chain Reference Bible and others as they have said are good yet have some dangers in it. The dangers is this:
1. You Study the Notes more than the Text. You will be addicted to read it's footnotes. In this case, we are losing sight to what the Holy Spirit want us to receive from Him. The Holy Spirit should be our guide, our comforter and our teacher( John 15:26). This is actually what happened to me but today I am using most of the time a plain KJV given to me by Graceway Bible Society. I have in my shelf, Thompson-Chain Reference Bible, The New Scofield Bible (not a KJV) which was given to me by the Swiss Seamens Mission based on France, Criswell Study Bible and the KJV Study Bible. Well, they helped me in my studies but you have to consider what I hinted.
2.Footnotes tends towards the correction of the Bible text. Most if not all, tends to correct the proper rendering of the text of our KJV which oftentimes will cast doubts. This is the specialty of the New Scofield Reference Bible.

Brother George, Tony, Samuel et.al. have remarked on this and what you have to to do is heed them so that you will no longer be confused.

God bless you brother and welcome to the Forum.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Fredoheaven

Hello bro Hollister, I am also new to this forum. Primarily, study bibles like the Old Scofield, The Thompson-Chain Reference Bible and others as they have said are good yet have some dangers in it. The dangers is this:
1. You Study the Notes more than the Text. You will be addicted to read it's footnotes. In this case, we are losing sight to what the Holy Spirit want us to receive from Him. The Holy Spirit should be our guide, our comforter and our teacher( John 15:26). This is actually what happened to me but today I am using most of the time a plain KJV given to me by Graceway Bible Society. I have in my shelf, Thompson-Chain Reference Bible, The New Scofield Bible (not a KJV) which was given to me by the Swiss Seamens Mission based on France, Criswell Study Bible and the KJV Study Bible. Well, they helped me in my studies but you have to consider what I hinted.
2.Footnotes tends towards the correction of the Bible text. Most if not all, tends to correct the proper rendering of the text of our KJV which oftentimes will cast doubts. This is the specialty of the New Scofield Reference Bible.

Brother George, Tony, Samuel et.al. have remarked on this and what you have to to do is heed them so that you will no longer be confused.

God bless you brother and welcome to the Forum.

Hollister, I stand with our brother here. You have to be careful even with the old Scofield. His footnote on 1 John 5:7:

"It is generally agreed that v.7 has no real authority, and has been inserted." --C. I. Scofield

Another good article to read is go to the main page of this site, go to articles, and read Brandon Stagg's excellent DISARMING THE SAINTS-THE BIBLE AS DEFECTIVE WEAPONRY.

Grace and peace to you

Tony