[buzzoff1031]

What is Lordship salvation? I understand that promoting the idea that Jesus being the Lord of your life as a requirement for salvation is wrong. But isn't also saying that "believe and you're saved" and then nothing more wrong. There should be fruit no?

[buzzoff1031]

Also, I want to ask something else. We all agree that repentance is a prerequisite to salvation, right? What is true repentance? Is it forsaking sin? Or is it merely realizing you're a sinner against God and that it is as the Bible says?

[George]

Originally Posted by buzzoff1031

"What is Lordship salvation? I understand that promoting the idea that Jesus being the Lord of your life as a requirement for salvation is wrong. But isn't also saying that "believe and you're saved" and then nothing more wrong. There should be fruit no?"

Aloha buzzoff,Our "Works" and/or "Fruit" have NOTHING to do with Salvation! It's the Lord Jesus Christ's WORKS & FRUIT that earned it for us.

Getting saved is quite simple really:

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Now there is a whole lot more to our Christian "walk" {"Fruit" & "Works"} with God AFTER we are saved. Salvation itself is quite simple (by design) really - We MUST BELIEVE, and anyone, (young or old; rich or poor; educated or not; bright or just average) ANYONE can get saved: they just have to BELIEVE the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ - PLUS NOTHING & MINUS NOTHING!

[buzzoff1031]

Again, as I said in my thread in the other section, I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I just want the truth. I want confidence that I hold the correct beliefs.

[George]

Originally Posted by buzzoff1031

"Also, I want to ask something else. We all agree that repentance is a prerequisite to salvation, right? What is true repentance? Is it forsaking sin? Or is it merely realizing you're a sinner against God and that it is as the Bible says?"

Aloha buzzoff,

No, we don't all "agree" that "repentance is a prerequisite to salvation" - that's part of what is known as "Lordship Salvation".

IF "repentance is a prerequisite to salvation" then we have ADDED to the "FINISHED" WORK that the Lord Jesus Christ accomplished on Calvary {Remember what He said in John 19:30: "It is FINISHED!}. We would have "required" something other than just BELIEF to get saved - but if there is "anything" that is required of us to get saved, other than BELIEF, we would have added WORKS (our WORKS) into the salvation matrix.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Salvation is quite simple really - living the Christian life according to God's Holy word is "something else"!

[Josh]

Amen to the above, except that Biblical repentance for salvation is turning not from your sins, for that is impossible in the flesh. It is turing from the sin of unbelieve, to believing on Jesus Christ as your Saviour. It is a change of heart. So yes, you need only believe to be saved.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by buzzoff1031

But isn't also saying that "believe and you're saved" and then nothing more wrong. There should be fruit no?

Hello "Buzz". Brother George is exactly right. Believing that Jesus Christ died for my sins, was buried, and rose from the dead on the third day according to the scriptures is sufficient and final (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). You should also know that being saved by believing in Jesus Christ will always result in bearing genuine fruit. You cannot be connected to the True Vine without yielding genuine fruit and you cannot abide in the Vine without experiencing pruning and purging by the Divine shears of the Husbandman (the Heavenly Father).

John 15:1-5 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Dangerous and harmful doctrine occurs when we fail to understand there are varying amounts of fruit in the life of a believer. When we begin to place emphasis on "works" or "deeds" to substantiate our security in Christ, we will more than likely doubt our salvation and feel defeated in the Christian life because we do not measure up to the "fruitful" and "productive" Christian. We are all at various levels of fruit production and this is supported with scripture.

Matthew 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

If I hold up a cluster of grapes with 30 grapes and another with only two, which branch is bearing fruit? Both of them are. Oh sure, we all admire and respect the "branch" covered in fruit, but the branch with two grapes on it is still alive in the Vine.

What is the solution for bearing fruit, more fruit, and much fruit? The branch (you) should simply abide in the True Vine (Christ) and yield the fruit He produces. Notice that in the life of a branch there is no toiling or striving to bring forth fruit. The branch is not ambitious, regimented, or even talented. It is helpless, yet it flourishes in the vine. The branch is alive and productive; yet resting.

Rest in, and know, Christ. Trust Him to produce the fruit He desires to bring forth in your life. Trust the care of our Heavenly Father, as the husbandman, to prune and purge your life so you can bear fruit, more fruit, and much fruit. Remember that without Christ, you can do nothing, but through Christ you can do all that He directs you to do.

[Winman]

Yes, if repentence meant to turn from sin, then God would be a sinner.

Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

There are many other verses that say God repented. So repentence does not mean to turn from sin, but it does mean to change one's mind or direction.

Look at these verses to understand what repent means:

Luke 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Here the Lord tells these persons they must repent or perish. But look at the phrase before each.

Suppose ye these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

And,

think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

These particular people had the wrong attitude about themselves and others. They believed if an evil event happened to certain persons that this was proof that these people were wicked sinners whom God punished. They also believed themselves to be righteous in God's sight.

Jesus told them that they needed to repent or change the way they were thinking. They needed to realize that they also were sinners in danger of perishing.

You are not going to turn to Jesus unless you realize you are a lost sinner. Most people believe they are good and that God will accept them as they are. This is the wrong attitude or belief that people must repent of.

[MC1171611]

Amen Winman, great post!

[buzzoff1031]

Ok, but what about verses like John 15:2, "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit if taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."?