[kittn1]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Maybe start reading in the book of John. If a verse perks your interest, run Scofield's cross-references and see what else the Book says. Use a Bible program (I'll leave it to others to suggest which one) to search words and phrases that interest your spirit at the moment. Need some help studying a topic? Post in the doctrine forum with specific questions.

Hope this helps.

I recommend SwordSearcher. I've used e-sword and SwordSearcher and I prefer the latter because you can narrow down your search farther with it. I use the copy feature regularly too when I'm witnessing online to people.

[MC1171611]

From what I've heard, SwordSearcher is a great tool; I just can't afford to buy it, and I've already plunked down almost $70 for a Mac app.

If you're cheap, go with eSword; that's about as good as it'll ever get for free (and it's already an excellent tool at that). Another 'Doze app I found, though I've never used, is Theophilos (http://www.theophilos.sk/). If you're thinking outside the box (i.e. "Windoze" box) and use Linux, try GnomeSword; for OS X use the free MacSword or Accordance ($$) if you're a power user.

I'd love to see SwordSearcher for Mac; most "ported" apps aren't that great, but with a Mac-minded UI overhaul I'm sure (from what I've heard) that it would be a top o' the line competitor on the Mac platform.

*offers ssh access for compiling on OS X*

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

I'd love to see SwordSearcher for Mac; most "ported" apps aren't that great, but with a Mac-minded UI overhaul I'm sure (from what I've heard) that it would be a top o' the line competitor on the Mac platform.

*offers ssh access for compiling on OS X*

The reason there is no SwordSearcher for Mac is the same as why 99.99% of developers never target Mac. Here some blog entries about my Mac development "adventures": Here and Here . (Some of the numbers mentioned are well out of date, but the points about development are the important ones.)

There is a history behind technical decisions at Apple. Essentially, when Jobs came back to save Apple, he brought with him all his baggage from his failed Next company. Even though Next was a failed enterprise, Jobs wanted to keep their work, so their development framework was used for Mac OS X. Jobs knows nothing about software development and this ensured that anyone who wanted to develop for the Mac in the next two decades would pay the price with mind numbing tedium. Bottom line: Mac development tools are in the dark ages compared to what is available for Windows. People who stick with it can create great applications for the Mac, but there was no way for me to justify my continued development on Mac when 95% of the people interested in my software use Windows and I am just one developer. Besides, the Mac Bible software market has gotten a lot more crowded lately so the ROI is even lower that it could have been a few years ago.

But don't take my word for it. If you google variations of "Mac development sucks, XCode sucks, Interface Builder sucks, etc" you can read to your heart's content.

Anyway, SwordSearcher on a Mac is an option for people and I have plenty of customers who do it: http://www.swordsearcher-mac.com Sure, it's not native Mac API, but SS Mac users don't seem to mind.

[Diligent]

Moderator note: these posts have been moved out of the thread they hijacked.

[Gord]

Originally Posted by Diligent

The reason there is no SwordSearcher for Mac is the same as why 99.99% of developers never target Mac. Here some blog entries about my Mac development "adventures": Here and Here . (Some of the numbers mentioned are well out of date, but the points about development are the important ones.)

There is a history behind technical decisions at Apple. Essentially, when Jobs came back to save Apple, he brought with him all his baggage from his failed Next company. Even though Next was a failed enterprise, Jobs wanted to keep their work, so their development framework was used for Mac OS X. Jobs knows nothing about software development and this ensured that anyone who wanted to develop for the Mac in the next two decades would pay the price with mind numbing tedium. Bottom line: Mac development tools are in the dark ages compared to what is available for Windows. People who stick with it can create great applications for the Mac, but there was no way for me to justify my continued development on Mac when 95% of the people interested in my software use Windows and I am just one developer. Besides, the Mac Bible software market has gotten a lot more crowded lately so the ROI is even lower that it could have been a few years ago.

But don't take my word for it. If you google variations of "Mac development sucks, XCode sucks, Interface Builder sucks, etc" you can read to your heart's content.

Anyway, SwordSearcher on a Mac is an option for people and I have plenty of customers who do it: http://www.swordsearcher-mac.com Sure, it's not native Mac API, but SS Mac users don't seem to mind.

Well it's growing a bit faster then that, thanks to Vista. http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/...ears_10_1.html
10% and growing, linux is probably taken some of that with the server and mobile phone market too.

Having beta tested for various linux, I am as anti microsoft, as most folks that use it are unaware that there are alternatives.

This still creates a lot of headaches for developers on both sides. Linux has the 'open' development license which allows anyone in the world who can, develop software. A slower growth rate I would think then M$ who pays a lot of folks to develop. I would think that the MAC development team only needs to tweak what the linux world develops to look and feel osx'ish.

The private developer, like Brandon, has no choice but to work on where he can get the most mileage with his limited resources.

I have NO regrets switching to OSX, a lot of similarities to linux (with beos) as its code base, and I don't have to keep trying the linux flavor of the month with the constant 6 month development release of each brand.

http://distrowatch.com where you have the top 100 linux flavors.

AND, SwordSearcher runs like a champ on my mac.

[Diligent]

Hi Gord,

My view of the Mac is decidedly biased as a Windows developer. I actually enjoy programming and have since my Commodore 64. But due to having to go backwards in development methodology when working on Mac software, I actually started to really dislike my work, so I had to drop it. It just wasn't worth it.

This says nothing about the end products available on a Mac or those who use a Mac. OS X is a fine operating system. I just grew to really dislike developing for it.

And, I may be the only one in the world, but I think Windows Vista is an excellent operating system.



I'm glad SwordSearcher works well for you!

[stephanos]

I've developed exclusively for Linux myself. I find that the platform is very generous to developers and provides unlimited options and toolkits to develop with.

Originally Posted by Gord

Having beta tested for various linux, I am as anti microsoft, as most folks that use it are unaware that there are alternatives.

This still creates a lot of headaches for developers on both sides. Linux has the 'open' development license which allows anyone in the world who can, develop software. A slower growth rate I would think then M$ who pays a lot of folks to develop. I would think that the MAC development team only needs to tweak what the linux world develops to look and feel osx'ish.

The private developer, like Brandon, has no choice but to work on where he can get the most mileage with his limited resources.

I have NO regrets switching to OSX, a lot of similarities to linux (with beos) as its code base, and I don't have to keep trying the linux flavor of the month with the constant 6 month development release of each brand.

http://distrowatch.com where you have the top 100 linux flavors.

AND, SwordSearcher runs like a champ on my mac.

Gord, I've used Linux since the late 90's and I don't understand where you're coming from. Sure there are lots of folks wanting to try their hands at developing a Linux distribution, but the ones that have been around a long time, Slackware, Debian, Redhat etc... are very polished. I personally use Gentoo and have now for years. I can't imagine using Windows (although it's a lot better than it was when I gave it up back in '99), and using OSX sounds about as much fun as a nail in the foot (yes I've tried it, and *blech* Oh and OSX has nothing to do with BeOS. OSX is built on top of Darwin, which is a fully POSIX compliant UNIX OS). Now I don't know much about XCode, except that it's based on GCC, which is a fantastic compiler. I don't know which libc OSX offers, nor which bintools, but I imagine they're pretty decent.

EDIT: I now see, after reading his blog that Brandon isn't fond of developing with just Vim and a compiler. IDE's *blech*! ;P

Concerning SwordSearcher. I'd like to say that it runs flawlessly on my machine under WINE. Here's what I got running, and my configuration:

[root@navi]-[06:49 PM Thu Jan 08]-[stderr]
# emerge --info
Portage 2.1.6.4 (default/linux/amd64/2008.0, gcc-4.3.2, glibc-2.9_p20081201-r1, 2.6.27-gentoo-r3 x86_64)
================================================== ===============
System uname: Linux-2.6.27-gentoo-r3-x86_64-Dual-Core_AMD_Opteron-tm-_Processor_1210-with-glibc2.2.5
Timestamp of tree: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:00:02 +0000
ccache version 2.4 [enabled]
app-shells/bash: 3.2_p33
dev-java/java-config: 1.3.7-r1, 2.1.6-r1
dev-lang/python: 2.4.4-r13, 2.5.2-r7
dev-python/pycrypto: 2.0.1-r6
dev-util/ccache: 2.4-r7
dev-util/cmake: 2.4.6-r1
sys-apps/baselayout: 1.12.11.1
sys-apps/sandbox: 1.2.18.1-r2
sys-devel/autoconf: 2.13, 2.61-r2
sys-devel/automake: 1.5, 1.7.9-r1, 1.8.5-r3, 1.9.6-r2, 1.10.2
sys-devel/binutils: 2.18-r3
sys-devel/gcc-config: 1.4.0-r4
sys-devel/libtool: 1.5.26
virtual/os-headers: 2.6.23-r3
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="amd64"
CBUILD="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-march=opteron -O2 -pipe"
CHOST="x86_64-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc /usr/share/config /usr/share/cursors/xorg-x11/default /var/bind"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/env.d/java/ /etc/eselect/postgresql /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/revdep-rebuild /etc/terminfo /etc/texmf/web2c /etc/udev/rules.d"
CXXFLAGS="-march=opteron -O2 -pipe"
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FEATURES="candy ccache distlocks fixpackages metadata-transfer notitles parallel-fetch protect-owned sandbox sfperms strict unmerge-orphans userfetch"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://gentoo.osuosl.org/ ftp://cs.ubishops.ca/pub/gentoo ftp://ftp.gtlib.cc.gatech.edu/pub/gentoo ftp://csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu/pub/gentoo/ ftp://gentoo.mirrored.ca/"
LANG="en_US.UTF-8"
LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8"
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1"
LINGUAS="en"
MAKEOPTS="-j3"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY="/usr/local/portage/layman/enlightenment"
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="3dnow 3dnowext X a52 aac acl alsa amd64 asf avi berkdb bogofilter bzip2 cairo cddb cdio cdparanoia cdr cjk cli color-console cpudetection cracklib crypt curl dbus dri dts dv dvb dvd dvdr dvdread encode examples ffmpeg flac fortran ftp gdbm gif gnome gpm gstreamer gtk gtk2 hal iconv imlib imlib2 ipv6 isdnlog iso14755 jikes jpeg jpeg2k kdeenablefinal live lm_sensors lzo mad maildir md5sum midi mikmod mime mmx mmxext mng mozsvg mp2 mp3 mpd mplayer msn mudflap multilib musepack ncurses nemesi normalize nptl nptlonly nsplugin nvidia ogg openal opengl openmp pam pcre pdf perl png pppd python quicktime rar readline reflection ruby sdl session silc smime smp spell spl srt sse sse2 ssl stream svg sysfs tcpd tetex theora threads truetype unicode userlocales vim-syntax vorbis wav widescreen x264 xanim xcomposite xine xml xml2 xorg xscreensaver xv xvid xvmc zlib"

I'm running the current wine version 1.1.12 which supports 64bit applications and can now perform subpixel rendering (though they b0rked it and messed up the registry).

If you want to try running SwordSearcher in version 1.1.12 make sure you fix the registry by creating a file called "wine_fontsmoothing.reg" with the following contents:

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Control Panel\Desktop]
"FontSmoothing"="2"
"FontSmoothingType"=dword:00000002
"FontSmoothingGamma"=dword:00000578
"FontSmoothingOrientation"=dword:00000001

and then run `regedit wine_fontsmoothing.reg` and you'll be set.

Not sure how well wine works on OSX, but I know folks do use it there.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[MC1171611]

I've used wine, or rather CrossOver Mac (a commercial release of Wine), to run eSword once; I started it up, blanched at the UI, and shut it right down. I'd rather eat a live rat than use something that uninspired.

OS X cannot be beat; I would never say a thing against Linux (Darwin is a version of FreeBSD), but if you can afford a Mac, there is really no comparison to anything on the market. I've run just about everything there is to run, and I wouldn't dream of buying anything but a Mac.

That being said, I'll check out the SwordSearcher link you pointed me to, Bro. Brandon. I'm actually kinda' sorta' helping with the MacSword 2 program (just running little tests and sending logs and crash info to the developer) and it's looking much better than the current version.

[Gord]

Originally Posted by stephanos

I've developed exclusively for Linux myself. I find that the platform is very generous to developers and provides unlimited options and toolkits to develop with.



Gord, I've used Linux since the late 90's and I don't understand where you're coming from. Sure there are lots of folks wanting to try their hands at developing a Linux distribution, but the ones that have been around a long time, Slackware, Debian, Redhat etc... are very polished. I personally use Gentoo and have now for years. I can't imagine using Windows (although it's a lot better than it was when I gave it up back in '99), and using OSX sounds about as much fun as a nail in the foot (yes I've tried it, and *blech* Oh and OSX has nothing to do with BeOS. OSX is built on top of Darwin, which is a fully POSIX compliant UNIX OS). Now I don't know much about XCode, except that it's based on GCC, which is a fantastic compiler. I don't know which libc OSX offers, nor which bintools, but I imagine they're pretty decent.

EDIT: I now see, after reading his blog that Brandon isn't fond of developing with just Vim and a compiler. IDE's *blech*! ;P

Concerning SwordSearcher. I'd like to say that it runs flawlessly on my machine under WINE. Here's what I got running, and my configuration:



I'm running the current wine version 1.1.12 which supports 64bit applications and can now perform subpixel rendering (though they b0rked it and messed up the registry).

If you want to try running SwordSearcher in version 1.1.12 make sure you fix the registry by creating a file called "wine_fontsmoothing.reg" with the following contents:



and then run `regedit wine_fontsmoothing.reg` and you'll be set.

Not sure how well wine works on OSX, but I know folks do use it there.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Thank you Stephen for the tips on wine. I have an old box in the office I have Ubuntu on and wine runs SwordSearcher on that just great, considering that it's only a 950celeron chip with only 512 ram. The hard drive on that old beaut is probably razor thin from all the installs of linux that have been on it since RH5, I think in the mid to late 90's. Back then I thought it was cute to crash all the little bomb icons, and it only took me 4 days to get the printer to work. The closest I came to getting Gentoo installed was it's derivative Sabyan. I'm from the old school technology wise, so if I can't point and click, I don't use it. (Terminal Windows for geeks is not my forte).

My reference to BEOS should have been FreeBSD, as I was too impatient to type rather the look up what I was talking about.

With your advance knowledge and understanding of Linux, it's no wonder you don't like OSX, but for an old curmudgeon like me that only knows the 3 buttons of a mouse, OSX fits right into my comfort zone, and desire to not have to learn new geeky stuff, or EVER open a terminal window.

If I find a good STEP reader that will work on my Mac, I'll blow windows off my old laptop and give whatever linux flavor I feel drawn to at that time.

For now, on my laptop, I have and extensive book library that I use with BibleExplorer4 and the STEP reader, (that I don't have SS modules for) and only when I study to I fire it up for that reason only.

It is refreshing to yak linux, I gave up on the testing, installing, and forum chat as I found it was cutting in to way to much of my family time, and time for the Lord.

[Gord]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

.... I'm actually kinda' sorta' helping with the MacSword 2 program (just running little tests and sending logs and crash info to the developer) and it's looking much better than the current version.

I would like to see that when it comes out, I'm not keen with the UI in it's present form on my mac. The only thing I really open it is to compare ESV scriptures with KJV. I know, I know, but I still have a curiosity.