[Cody1611]

I was wondering how many of you believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

If so, why do you believe so?

A. Because your church preaches it
B. Because a preacher teaches it
C. Because you was raised that way
D. Because you've studied it yourself

I believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, but I have been listening to other people that are against it because I want to hear all sides of the subject. So far the people that refute the Pre-Trib Rapture say that verses have to be taken out of context for there be Pre-Trib Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture theory was started around 1830.

The only Rapture I can see going along with Rightly Dividing the word of God is the Pre-Trib Rapture. I was raised in a church that spiritualized everything dealing with this subject, so I'm already messed up. Can someone please help me and explain all this.

Thank you for your time and God Bless

[chette777]

The Jest of the supporting scriputres can be found in the following verses. You will need to put together a timeline from the time of the gathering to the Time of Jesus Coming in his brightness and destroys teh anti-christ (even him, whose ocming is after Satan) and Identify what time period that is between the two events. once that is established you see clearlythe scriptures teach a catching away, later translated into Latin Raptura, transliterated into English Rapture.

While no Bible translates the catching awayin Thess as Rapture. the teaching come through the Roman Church Rule and into the Reformation. there the teachers left the word Rapture in the Teaching because many were already familuar with this clear teaching of Scriptures.

Todays heredical opposition is a form of Arian(SP?) and Gnostic beliefs brought forth with newer greek text to ruin your hope in preservation from the Great Tribulation.

1Th 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1Corithians shows the details that happen at and during the gatherig taught in 1Thess 4

1Cor 15:51- 57 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Second Thessolonians helps you to see what happens after the catching away and and until Jesus comes in his glory

2 Thess 1-12 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Nothing is out of context because Paul is the one who changed the order of the context. This teaching was taught by Paul whom beleived that at any moment the Lord would return for his body and commense the Great Trib before setting up His Kingdom.

[Cody1611]

Thanks for your reply. What do you think of this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6vdL-r79cQ

[chette777]

Cody,

1 John 4 tells us to test the spirits to see if they are of God for many antichrist have gone out into the world. not matter what the video claims they have indeed taken the scriptures out of thier context and created an anti-thesis to pre trib rapture. follow their links you will end up in pages of churches who hold arminiest views and the gnostic teachings supported by their newer bible versions. they are very convinceing but their teaching is the teaching which is by pretext.

I do not beleive in a SECRET rapture as they said advocates of pre-trib rapture do (some do. i don't so we are all linked together)
I never claimed the wrath we are saved from is the wrath of the anti-christ. The wrath to come is that to be poured out on unbeleiveing Israel and the nations after the gather to Jesus of his body takes place is the wrath of God known as a period of time as the Great Trib. that is the wrath we are saved. The anti-christ only pours his wrathout on Israel while the rest of the world beleived his lie.

they totally leave out 1thess 4 all together which tells us as well a 2 Thess 2:1-12 the gathering in vs one is described in 1thess 4 and they took the verses out of context with their pretext and left out verse so you couldn't see the truth.

I stopped the video because they were wresting the scriptures. that is a sign of a false teacher. I will not give heed to them for even one moment.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Cody1611

If so, why do you believe so?

I believe the Bible teaches a pre-tribulational rapture, in part because every type in the Bible shows it; for example, Enoch was translated before Noah began building the Ark. Also, the "system of salvation" for people under the tribulation doesn't "work" for people before the tribulation unless those people (us) can lose their salvation, which is obviously nonsense.

[Cody1611]

I agree with you, brother. What about this...in Noah's Ark and the days of Lot, none of the unbelievers were saved, so why would there be Tribulation Saints this time?

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Cody1611

I agree with you, brother. What about this...in Noah's Ark and the days of Lot, none of the unbelievers were saved, so why would there be Tribulation Saints this time?

With regard to Noah's Ark, isn't Noah himself the "tribulation saint?" (Matt 24:37) Enoch was translated before Noah began his work.

I don't know how Lot fits in, though.

[chette777]

The New Testament Calls him "righteous Lot". he was hospitable to strangers. and only becuase God saw him as righteous is he spared from the destruction of Sodom. Remember Abraham did not plead for Lot, he pleaded for righteous men.

So here again in Genesis 19 we see a pre tribulation removal of a righteous man from the wrath of God.

He will rise in the white throne judgement. The book of works will show his name is in the book of life. his salvation system was faith plus works.

He will enter into heaven in his resurrected body eat the fruit of the tree of life to gain immortality, eat the leaves to heal his body, and drink the river of life to give him the vitality of a 30 year old. but he will look aged (this last art is my opinion).