[Luke]

Has anyone seen the video I am referring to?

If you haven't, I'm not going to link it (you don't want to see it. Waste of time).

What do those who have seen it think of it?

Is it the next "Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God" as half the internet seem to be proclaiming, or is it simply false doctrine (SITHOAAG had it's fair share of false doctrine too)?

My major concern is that Paul Washer honestly doubts the salvation of EVERYONE in that room, because they do not match up to his definition of biblical salvation (which is skewed by his hypercalvinist views of doublepredestination). Essentially, if you don't live like a Christian, you AREN'T saved, according to Mr Washer. If you haven't forsaken your sins, you aren't saved (what about the sin of ROCK MUSIC Mr Washer. Those drums look mighty purdy standing there behind you. You didn't mention it once in your sermon, and since you happily preached at this convention, it seems you don't care).

What do the Bible Believers think?

And I'm NOT asking the calvinists on here who love defending their "doctrines of grace", which are not very gracious at all. I understand their reasoning "Oh, God is so graceful that he chose to even save some of us despite our wickedness". But they never mention that they believe God "eternally decreed that Adam would fall and mankind would become wicked".

The grace of God hath appeared to ALL men.

Anyway, about Paul Washer, what saith the scriptures?

[Jeremy]

Sorry,do you have links?
Myself and others who i attend church with, would not fit into the catagory of christian in this guys book. Christians come in many size's, shapes and forms. Look at there doctrine,what is there foundation? Salvation through Jesus shed blood. You can't always tell a christian by there appearance. Many are suprised to know i listen to Rock music.
Hope i don't get kicked off here?

[Luke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

That's the link to the message. Admittedly, it is a convicting message, and he raises a lot of valid points.

But, what are "good works". He never seems to mention them. Is soulwinning a good work? He doesn't mention it. Apparently, being martyred is a good work, but I don't have much chance of that. It seems his definition of good works, is a lack of bad ones.

There is just something off about the message.

(And no, rock music will not condemn you to hell if you are born again, but it will affect you, and it is against God and is a sin, so you should get rid of it and get some godly music )

[George]

Originally Posted by Luke

Has anyone seen the video I am referring to?

If you haven't, I'm not going to link it (you don't want to see it. Waste of time).

What do those who have seen it think of it?

Is it the next "Sinners in the Hand of an Angry God" as half the internet seem to be proclaiming, or is it simply false doctrine (SITHOAAG had it's fair share of false doctrine too)?

My major concern is that Paul Washer honestly doubts the salvation of EVERYONE in that room, because they do not match up to his definition of biblical salvation (which is skewed by his hypercalvinist views of doublepredestination). Essentially, if you don't live like a Christian, you AREN'T saved, according to Mr Washer. If you haven't forsaken your sins, you aren't saved (what about the sin of ROCK MUSIC Mr Washer. Those drums look mighty purdy standing there behind you. You didn't mention it once in your sermon, and since you happily preached at this convention, it seems you don't care).

What do the Bible Believers think?

And I'm NOT asking the calvinists on here who love defending their "doctrines of grace", which are not very gracious at all. I understand their reasoning "Oh, God is so graceful that he chose to even save some of us despite our wickedness". But they never mention that they believe God "eternally decreed that Adam would fall and mankind would become wicked".

The grace of God hath appeared to ALL men.

Anyway, about Paul Washer, what saith the scriptures?

If it is not all of "GRACE" - we all are doomed! (GRACE = God's Riches At Christ's Expense). I am JUSTIFIED because of what HE DID - not because of what I am DOING! (JUSTIFIED = Just as if I never sinned).

Brother, if any one " thinks they have "anything" to do with their Salvation (other than "believing") they are ADDING to the "finished" work of my Saviour on Calvary! And they "deserve" whatever God has "in store" for them at the Judgment ("Judgment Seat of Christ" or the "Great White Throne").

[Jeremy]

I don't know what to think of this guy, America christianity being totally wrong? does that mean he is totally right. God forgive us of sectarianism.
Yes, there are some good points,but, he seems like a miserable christian. Southern baptist's are not the only ones going to heaven. Yes, i understand Sin and Salvation,Baptism and Communion and have accepted Jesus and what he has done for me in my heart. If you are so Legalistic, you may miss out on an opportunity to witness.
Anyone here,not have Skeletons in there closet?

[pneuby]

Originally Posted by George

"GRACE" - (GRACE = God's Riches At Christ's Expese
JUSTIFIED (JUSTIFIED = Just as if I never sinned).

Originally Posted by George

Brother, if any one " thinks they have "anything" to do with their Salvation (other than "believing")...
they "deserve" whatever God has "in store" for them at the Judgment ("Judgment Seat of Christ" or the "Great White Throne").

George, I hope you don't hold copyright on those two acronyms, as I intend to wholly appropriate them shamelessly for my own use, LOL!

As to your second point, I wholly agree with the preface. However, I think the latter portion will be as any other sin....forever washed away. There may be some lack of reward experienced over it, I don't know.

That's why I don't have much trouble with a typical Southern Baptist "Sinner's Prayer", in whatever derivative you may have heard it. As a rule, there is normally a sincer attempt to point out just WHAT it is that you're SUPPOSED to believe in. That is, that Christ is God, Son, Messiah, the ONLY way, and that his sacrifice was all that is/was needed.

Indeed, we've discussed this at my church many times. There will no doubt be any number of Catholics, perhaps a couple JW's, and even....gads!..Mormons in heaven with us. Maybe even an outlaw biker or two?

[Renee]

posted by pneuby#3

Indeed, we've discussed this at my church many times. There will no doubt be any number of Catholics, perhaps a couple JW's, and even....gads!..Mormons in heaven with us. Maybe even an outlaw biker or two?

You left out the prefix ex. Only ex Catholics, ex Mormons, ex JW's. I for one will be one of those Saved by the blood exCatholics. Praise the Lord!

Renee

[George]

Originally Posted by pneuby

George, I hope you don't hold copyright on those two acronyms, as I intend to wholly appropriate them shamelessly for my own use, LOL!

As to your second point, I wholly agree with the preface. However, I think the latter portion will be as any other sin....forever washed away. There may be some lack of reward experienced over it, I don't know.

That's why I don't have much trouble with a typical Southern Baptist "Sinner's Prayer", in whatever derivative you may have heard it. As a rule, there is normally a sincer attempt to point out just WHAT it is that you're SUPPOSED to believe in. That is, that Christ is God, Son, Messiah, the ONLY way, and that his sacrifice was all that is/was needed.

Indeed, we've discussed this at my church many times. There will no doubt be any number of Catholics, perhaps a couple JW's, and even....gads!..Mormons in heaven with us. Maybe even an outlaw biker or two?

Aloha brother,

I wish that I could take credit for both of them but they were very popular in the 1970's (I have no idea who originated them) - maybe they have fallen out of favor?

Since God is the only one in the Universe that can tell what is in a person's heart - I leave it up to Him as to who is saved and who is not. I just know that there is only one way to the Father:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Any "other way" is COUNTERFEIT & FALSE! And at this point in the history of the world, there are so many false "christian" religions (most originating in America - Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Cambellites, christian science, etc., etc.) that is getting more and more difficult for people to discern just exactly who is a Christian and who is not. Personally I think that the "bikers" stand a better chance!

[Debau]

Posted by pneuby
"As to your second point, I wholly agree with the preface. However, I think the latter portion will be as any other sin....forever washed away. There may be some lack of reward experienced over it, I don't know."

George's 2nd point
And they "deserve" whatever God has "in store" for them at the Judgment ("Judgment Seat of Christ" or the "Great White Throne").

Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Is not this statement (pneuby's) typical of those who have not the proper fear of loss at the Bema judgment. Our sins ARE washed away, but our service WILL be judged.

2 Corinthians 5:10-11
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

That's why I don't have much trouble with a typical Southern Baptist "Sinner's Prayer", in whatever derivative you may have heard it. As a rule, there is normally a sincer attempt to point out just WHAT it is that you're SUPPOSED to believe in. That is, that Christ is God, Son, Messiah, the ONLY way, and that his sacrifice was all that is was needed.

There will no doubt be any number of Catholics, perhaps a couple JW's, and even....gads!..Mormons in heaven with us. Maybe even an outlaw biker or two?

I'm not sure what the SB's prayer is, but if it is not in "repentance", coming into agreement before a holy God of our estate before Him, that we are lost and undone sinners worthy of only His wrath, in need of the Saviour, we can believe in our heads that Christ is God, Son, Messiah, the ONLY way, but His sacrifice will be of none effect until we KNOW we are sinners, trusting in in only His finished redeeming work at the cross. Trusting in our hearts that He bore all our sins and incurred the wrath we deserve. Understanding what the "ONLY way" is, and that it excludes us doing anything but believing. The JW and Catholic will probably still be trusting in his own ability to do something of worth to reconcile himself to God. The biker seems to understand his position of a rebel as a badge of honor, or something. He has to see his rebellion for what it is too.

Maybe Mr. Washer confuses our good works unto Him as a condition for salvation. Unfortunately, we can believe, and live more carnally than the heathen. What loss we should suffer! I didn't watch the whole video, but I think I got the gist.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

i think you guys are missing the whole of the message. i loved the message, paul never said salvation is anything that we do, he merely brought up that if you are born again, you are a new creature, and you WILL behave differently, you WILL have a change of heart, and it will be entirely because we are born again and are new people in Christ Jesus..

see, paulwasher is schooled in something that is not taught much today, holiness. we are made holy in God's eyes by the sacrifice of Christ on calvary. however as eph. 2 points out God has ordained good works for us that we should walk in them. all the things paul talked about in that sermon are acts of holiness. yes, paul washer is a 5 point calvinist, not that you'd know that from hearing that message. and yes he believes things i don't agree with, but in that message [modern american Christianity], he is calling the church back to holiness. we are just a step away from showing up in church wearing next to nothing. in fact some people today already show up like that.

what did he say that was so bad? he didn't doubt everyone's salvation in that auditorium what he did was wake them up with the truth that we are called to be separate from the world. that we are to live a life of separation and holiness. and are to rebel against sin, and cling to Jesus Christ