[bibleprotector]

I believe that the Scripture indicates the proper view regarding the KJB in the end times. That the KJB should be exalted seems to be a good thing, after all, Psalm 56 talks about praising God’s Word, and Isaiah 42:21 says, “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.”

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

O.T. prophecy to Israel applied to the Body of Christ

But the OT, when spiritually applied. is for the Church, as Romans 15:4 states, “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.”

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

we need to illuminate the ideological contentions in this thread with the light of Scripture to let us see what we are saying because this forum is not observed by members only but a great many guests, Christian and non.

I do not think we should water down our doctrines just because they might be unpopular in the eyes of Leftists etc. We should be zealous, and speak with conviction and clarity about what is right and good.

We believe the KJB is perfect. We believe that it is the best anyone in the world can have. We are not denying that the Scripture and the Gospel has been in other languages, but we seek to promote and allow for the best for all folk in all nations, which means having a common standard Bible. I believe that this is the basis of true Christian unity as opposed to having many versions as well as continuing to uphold many varying translations.

I would even go so far to suggest that when Christ said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” (Mt 10:34), that He was thinking about the Holy Ghost’s work with the KJB as a particular fulfilment of this prophecy, because we all know how divisive Satan has been in regards to the modern versionists against the steadfast stand for the KJB.

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

1.-I want to know why you people are forbidding these men from their translation work that I discern they have been called by God to do( and not Satan) leading to the subsequent damnation of the souls they care about, and subsequent loss of rewards for both them and you?

The answer to that question can be given on the basis of this question: The Geneva Bible, was it of God, or of men?

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

2.-Why are you people impeding these men’s (to me) God called desire to “interpret” God’s words into other “tongues” of nations embalmed in Roman Catholicism and starved for the truth?(Amos 8-11)

The answer to that accusation can be given on the basis of this question: Do KJBOs labour to ban the Geneva Bible?

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

3-Whose commandments are found in both letters to the Corinthians?

1Cor. 14:21 says, “In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.” How will Gentiles speak to the Jews? At one time it was in the Greek language. But now most Jews know English. Also, this prophecy indicates that the Jews would continue to resist the Gospel in this present circumstance. However, we find that there are more prophecies in Scripture which build further. Clearly, God has been speaking with the use of the KJB to the Jews. Our expectation should be for the increase of this, not a decrease.

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

The Catholic Church disobeyed God for 1700 years in making Goths and Huns and Franks hear only what they said were Gods words and in an unknown language (Latin) to them.

The Romanists are not just disobeying God, they were not God’s envoys, missionaries, representatives or ambassadors since the early centuries when the Roman Church went into perdition.

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

how many Jesuits under oath there were in the KJO movement transposing their “Latin only” myth over now and making it into an “English only” myth.

If anyone actually believes that, then they might actually believe that all Protestants are Roman Catholics because, like Catholics, Protestants want to convert the world to their own religion. (E.g. cats have 4 legs, my dog has 4 legs, therefore my dog is a cat.)

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

4. Who lead these men into this work? Was it (a.)God, (b)the deception of Satan, or (c)their own flesh edifying and glorifying itself?

I believe this is a foolish question.

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

5. Are only Red Chinese air traffic controllers in Red China going to be saved?

Erasmus and Tyndale desired Turks and Saracens to be saved. Knowing English is not a prerequisite for salvation. However, it is quite useful to have the printing press as an aid to salvation. The English language is one of those things which has the greatest potential for the furtherest instruction of benighted souls.

Originally Posted by Tony Bones

Read Genesis 11 like I did friends, and see if the Spirit of God said the same things to you He did to me, which is contained in this message reply.

First, Gen. 11:1 “And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.” This was the case with God's intention in creation. We should not attempt to form a doctrine which prohibits ONE LANGUAGE.

Second, God scattered people and languages as a judgment on sin. However, the advent of Abram in the end of this chapter is the portal by which this is reversed. (We are the children of Abraham, and the blessing is to all nations of the earth!)

Third, in the Millennial reign of Christ we see a one world kingdom. This is not bad, but good. Yet today, the idea of a one world kingdom means something bad. Now consider: if born again people are in the future using one language as common, this could not be bad like the antichrist kingdom, since,
a. they are good, godly, righteous people,
b. they are the same Church that Paul was part of,
c. they are doing so because it is part of God’s plan.

It seems to me that God, in His Divine Providence, has raised up the KJB and made the English language to be global so that the pure Word would be taught by the Christian advance of the best doctrines in one language as a witness to the world would actually work out to the confounding of evil and to those who mock Christianity because of divisions. What would do more to heal and bring unity than one true focus, namely, to have the very Word of God in English as the focus of all true believers in the whole earth before the return of Christ, so that we would be, “the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” (1 Tim. 3:15b).

[bibleprotector]

It is very interesting to see how God has used the English-speaking nations of the world for His purpose. This has nothing to do with either British-Israelism or mere Jingoism.

Consider the Translators to the Reader at the beginning of the KJB, which proclaims,

“the people of England” and then, what we must conclude is a reference to the English Church, “For whereas it was the expectation of many, who wished not well unto our Sion, that upon the setting of that bright Occidental Star, Queen Elizabeth”, etc. And then, “there should be one more exact translation of the holy Scriptures into the English tongue”. And, “we shall be traduced by Popish Persons at home or abroad, who therefore will malign us, because we are poor instruments to make God’s holy Truth to be yet more and more known unto the people”.

Note that they call their English Church “Sion”, and speak about the progress of the English Scripture.

Here is a Puritan quote:

“Cromwell was full of patriotic pride. Once, when he was enumerating to Parliament the dangers which threatened the State, he wound up by saying that the enumeration should cause no despondency, ‘as truly I think it will not; for we are Englishmen: that is one good fact.’ ‘The English,’ he said on another occasion, ‘are a people that have been like other nations, sometimes up and sometimes down in our honour in the world, but never yet so low but we might measure with other nations.’ Several times in his speeches he termed the English ‘the best people in the world.’ Best, because ‘having the highest and clearest profession amongst them of the greatest glory — namely, religion.’ Best, because in the midst of the English people there was as it were another people, ‘a people that are to God as the apple of His eye,’ ‘His peculiar interest,’ ‘the people of God.’ ‘When I say the people of God,’ he explained, ‘I mean the large comprehension of them under the several forms of godliness in this nation’.” — Firth.

Here is a quote from Richard Hakluyt, made during the reign of Elizabeth,

“And therefore in seeking the Kingdom of God we are not only tied to the deep search of God’s sacred word and to live within the perfect limits of Christianity, but also by all means we are bound to multiply, and increase the flock of the faithful. ... God’s providence therein being considered who most mercifully saith by the mouth of his prophet, Esaias 66, I will come to gather all people and tongues, then shall they come and see my glory, of them that shall be saved. I will send some to the Gentiles in the sea and the isles far off that have not heard speak of me, and have not seen my glory, shall preach my peace among the Gentiles. [Paraphrase].

“And in this 65th Chapter he further saith, They seek me that hitherto have not asked for me, they find me that hitherto have not sought me. [Paraphrase].

“And again, Chapter 49, I will make ways upon all my mountains and my footpaths shall be exalted, and behold these shall come from far, some from the north and west, some from the land of Symis which is in the south. [Paraphrase].

“Then sith [since] it is so appointed that there shall be one shepherd and one flock, what hindereth us of England, (being by God’s mercy for the same purpose at this present most aptly prepared,) not to attempt that which God himself hath appointed to be performed, there is no doubt but that we of England are this saved people by the eternal and infallible presence of the Lord predestinated to be sent unto these Gentiles in the sea, to those isles and famous kingdoms there to preach the peace of the Lord, for are not we only set upon Mount Sion to give light to all the rest of the world, have not we the true handmaid [Queen Elizabeth the First] of the Lord to rule us, unto whom the eternal majesty of God hath revelled his truth and supreme power of excellency, by whom then shall the truth be preached, but by them unto whom the truth shall be revealed, it is only we therefore that must be these shining messengers of the Lord and none but we for as the prophet saith, O how beautiful are the feet of the messenger that bringeth the message from the mountain, that proclaimeth peace, that bringeth the good tidings and preacheth health and saith to Sion thy God is King. [Paraphrase].”

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

I believe that the Scripture indicates the proper view regarding the KJB in the end times. That the KJB should be exalted seems to be a good thing, after all, Psalm 56 talks about praising God’s Word, and Isaiah 42:21 says, “The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.”

I want to thank you for your reply to my message. My friend, I have a backlog of messages to the forum I need to deal with, plus an ill and disabled family member to care for. I'm not ignoring you if I take a few days answering you. I appreciate and respect your service for Christ and your positions and opinions. I am not tired of the combat for Christ, the spiritual war, I just appreciate this forum where I can reply with words seasoned with grace, that can edify my fellow soldiers, and return to God His words with many souls attached. I discern tempers can flare here, but we are individuals and interpret a message in different ways. I have an impulse to bare my claws if someone disagrees with me, I mute that here. I don;t think Brandon wants this to be the FFF, lol.

A great weekend to you and better week next week and always.

Grace and peace

Tony

[drbible1611]

"I do not at all believe one must learn English or be a King James Bible onlyist in order to get saved and grow in Christ".

Yes you are correct in what you say about salvation.

However, if you do not need to study the KJB to grow in Christ then one could surely make the same application to English translations as well.

I have yet to come across an NIV, NASB, NLT etc user who is straight on their doctrine.

Are we as KJB believers supposed to sit back and not help these folk grow in Christ?

I believe the same applies to those whose first language is not English.

Let me give you an example from the Gdanska Bible. In Job the Polish translators of 1632 have made a mess of LEVIATHAN therefore losing the cross reference to Satan.

So either Bro Riggs has to insert the word Leviathan or the Poles need to go to the Final Authority in ENGLISH. Unless like the NIV, NASB, NLT etc users they must miss out on some doctrinal truth.

[Brother Tim]

A child will grow eating food that is poor in nutrition, but he will not grow healthy. A believer may grow reading a modern version (the extent of that growth depends on many factors), but he will always be more stunted than if he had the "pure milk of the word".

[George]

Aloha brother Bones,

Although some of your comments may accurately describe some people on the Forum you need to be more specific as to who you are addressing:

Your quote:

“I think we all need to sit back and re-examine just exactly what we are saying, we need to illuminate the ideological contentions in this thread with the light of Scripture to let us see what we are saying because this forum is not observed by members only but a great many guests, Christian and non.”

WHO (on the Forum) are you addressing? ALL of us?

You said:

“I think Manny and Brett have been ill used in this thread with little charity from the heart, the majority of that charity being eye-service and not from the heart.”

Again Manny and Brett have been “ill used” by WHOM? Certainly not ALL of us!

You stated:

“1.-I want to know why you people are forbidding these men from their translation work that I discern they have been called by God to do( and not Satan) leading to the subsequent damnation of the souls they care about, and subsequent loss of rewards for both them and you? “

WHO are the “you people” that are “forbidding”? I (for one) am NOT suggesting (for one moment) that they NOT translate God’s Holy words into another language.

You said:

”2.-Why are you people impeding these men’s (to me) God called desire to “interpret” God’s words into other “tongues” of nations embalmed in Roman Catholicism and starved for the truth?(Amos 8-11)”

Again, WHO are the “you people” you are accusing of “impeding” these men? I’m not “impeding” anyone; I’ve said I support brother John Hinton’s translation work in other languages. Your criticisms are too broad – they encompass all of us on the Forum. We are NOT ALL guilty of those charges they you have laid on us ALL.

You stated:

“It’s going to be interesting to see at The White Throne Judgment how many Jesuits under oath there were in the KJO movement transposing their “Latin only” myth over now and making it into an “English only” myth.”

If by “English only myth”, you mean that God’s words CANNOT be found in other languages, or we are NOT to translate God’s words into other languages – I am in agreement with you. I can find NO PROHIBITION to translating God’s words into languages other than English; the $64,000,000.00 question is from what SOURCE are these translations being translated from – THE GREEK (which GREEK) - THE HEBREW? (which HEBREW)? Do you see the problem?

Has Scrivener’s TR now been elevated to Holy “perfection”? Is Scrivener’s TR perfect, Holy, and without error? Is Scrivener’s TR now “THE STANDARD” by which we are to judge ALL other translations? If it is, then I cannot “judge” other translations, since I cannot read, write, or understand Koine Greek!

If on the other Hand that you are claiming that there are other translations of the Bible (King James Bible) that are the FINAL AUTHORITY in ALL matters of faith and practice – what do we do when they DIFFER with the King James Bible? WHICH FINAL AUTHORITY is THE FINAL AUTHORITY?

It’s not a question of whether the words of God should be translated into other languages, or of forcing everyone to speak, write, read, and understand English; it’s a question of WHAT IS God’s FINAL AUTHORITATIVE BOOK (Bible) on earth? It would be unreasonable to PROHIBIT God’s words from being translated into languages other than English; but are there any translations of the Bible (a Book) that are perfect, Holy, infallible, and without error, other than the King James Bible?

John Hinton is at home in perhaps a dozen languages (or possibly more). He uses the King James Bible as his FINAL AUTHORITY when working on translating God’s words into other languages. He may search, refer, or consult Bibles in other languages (including “The Greek” & Hebrew texts), but his FINAL AUTHORITY in determining the wording of a translation (the words), is the English text of the King James Bible – NOT Scrivener’s Greek TR.

You stated:

“Well brother, your expectation is in vain, because the Scripture you cite is strictly to Israel and not the Body of Christ, unless you believe the Body of Christ is the “New Israel”? Just as water baptism is the “New Circumcision” and Sunday is the “New Sabbath”?”

WHO are you addressing? It can’t be ALL of us, because ALL of us don’t fit your description.

Your quote:

“My final question is this: Are we going to aid Manny and Brett or are we going to let the doctrine of devils of Islamic and Catholic elitism cause us to follow them, shouting, “You can have the pure words of God but not in your own language”?”

I repeat what I said in an earlier Post: “There are not many Bible believers on this Forum that would insist that God's word should not be translated into other languages; or who would impede or prohibit other Christians from translating God's words into another language; or deny that there are several (older) Bible translations out there that contain the word of God.”

Let’s examine what “Mitex” said – shall we?

“1) Whatever principles lead us to believe the AV is the word of God in English should, must and are used by born again spirit filled Christians in other lands speaking other languages.”

I Agree with the premise. But the question remains: Are there any translations (in any language other than English) of the Bible (a Book) that are perfect, Holy, infallible, and without error? If there are, can “Mitex” NAME ONE?

“2) Remember there was no fight with God given Bibles in foreign languages prior to 1881. Since then even AV Bible believers have become Bible critics.”

Please cogitate on what “Mitex” just said! In 1881 genuine “Bible believers” became “bible critics” – NOT because Westcott & Hort were translating the Holy words of God into another language! Genuine “Bible believers” were upset and became ‘bible critics” because a NEW (exceedingly corrupt) ENGLISH VERSION (RV) was being foisted on an unsuspecting public; and was being touted as “so much better”, “so much clearer” and “much closer to the ‘Originals’ than the Authorized Version”! Translating the Scriptures into a language other than English was not in view, so why is “Mitex” using this as an example of the “bible critics” (today), who are critical of translating God’s words into another language, when there is no connection between the two?

“3) Any type of doctrine about "preservation" must give valid examples of how this works i.e. how does "preservation" jump from one language to another? The Greek and Hebrew Scriptures did not suddenly stop being "the Scriptures" when translated into other languages. The word of God existed PRIOR to 1611 and AFTER 1611. The word of God is not limited to "one language". Each major language has the word of God - the version that God wants them to have - recognized by the same principles that lead English believers to the Standard in English - the AV.”

In my Post #55 (this Thread), I thought I gave Mitex & Daniel Haifley 2 different Links as to “why I believe in the King James Bible”. The second link address was supposed to have taken them to another Post of mine where I laid out, what I believe those "principles" are, (which deals specifically with “Mitex’s” 3rd. point), but somehow I linked to the same Post twice. My second link was supposed to have taken them to: AV1611 Forums <> Bible Versions <> King James Only Controversy <> Post #33, but somehow I made a mistake (my goof!), and even though the Link address “looks different” it links to the same Post as my first link.

On February 28, 2009 I posted my essay on the different languages God chose to use to promulgate and disseminate His Holy words, and to who they were addressed, and why God chose each specific language. The following link is the correct Link to that essay.
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...2&postcount=33

I am not going to repeat the whole Post, but I will say that I believe that “Mitex” hasn’t asked the right question: “Any type of doctrine about "preservation" must give valid examples of how this works i.e. how does "preservation" jump from one language to another?” Preservation has to do with God’s WORDS jumping “from one language to another” – NOT one “language” jumping “to another language”. It’s God’s WORDS that have been preserved for us in the King James Bible. God promised to preserve His WORDS [Psalm 12:6&7] NOT a language. It’s God’s WORDS that are INSPIRED” NOT a language! {That's exactly what most of the "scholars" are "hung up" on. They think that only the Hebrew & Greek LANGUAGES are INSPIRED!}

If we have God’s words – perfect, Holy, infallible, inspired, and without error in English in the King James Bible, WHY are some “scholars” continually going back to the Koine Greek (a dead language that no speaks anymore) to find out what God really said? If we have God’s words – perfect, Holy, infallible, inspired, and without error in English in the King James Bible, WHY are the same “scholars” going back to the Hebrew Texts (a language spoken by less than 1% of the people on earth) to find out what God really said?

If we have God’s words – perfect, Holy, infallible, inspired, and without error in English in the King James Bible, WHY are Bible translators using “The Greek” (whichever text they “prefer”) or “The Hebrew” (whichever text they “prefer”) to translate from, when God’s FINAL AUTHORITY is the English AV1611 – King James Bible? Do we really believe what we profess to believe?

By all means translate God’s words into all the languages in the world – I’m all for that, but what is the STANDARD text; what is the FINAL AUTHORITY that determines what words will be used to translate from? Do you see the problem? It’s one thing to check out “The Greek” or “The Hebrew”, or the earlier English translations for comparison; it’s quite another if any one of them become the STANDARD (like Scrivener’s Greek TR) for translating the Bible (a Book) into another language.

These comments are not meant to castigate you or “Mitex” or Daniel (and especially not brother Manny Rodriguez) in any way. My whole point is simply that it is not Scripturally sound for Christians to have “multiple authorities”; if the King James Bible is truly our FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice, then it should also be our FINAL AUTHORITY in translating God’s Holy words into another language – NOT “Scrivener’s “Greek TR”! If the King James Bible Is “good enough” for everything concerned with our faith and practice, then it should be “good enough” for translating purposes also.

[Will Kinney]

Hi brother George. Good points. I also really enjoyed reading your link to what you had previously said in #33. Very well put.

Gracias, y !Dios te bendiga!

Will Kinney

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

While the conversation is a bit heated, and would be nice to be toned down, there are two factual tweakings I'd like to make.

It is common to call the language of the OT Aramaic (sections in Daniel and Ezra) and the NT texts Syriac (eg. Peshitta and Old Syriac MSS). Even the OT Peshitta I think is called Aramaic while the NT Peshitta is called Syriac. With Aramaic possibly being a subset of Syriac in language theory, the terms do have a lot of overlap.

I'm not saying this necessarily is sensible, but it is scholarly language consensus and has nothing to do with e.g. recognizing the usage of Hebraisti == Hebrew in the NT. I can't see anything wrong with referring to "sections of Daniel and Ezra being in Aramaic" since that is what their Chaldee dialect is often called. Since Aramaic is used today, culturally in some lands as the main language, and by Orthodox Jews in studies and by Eastern Christians in their Bible text, there is no warrant to insist on banishing the word.

As for Scrivener's Greek text being an exact representation of the King James Bible, "exact" is a bit too strong. The Johannine Comma is not a counter-example, as Scrivener's italics was only in his Cambridge Paragraph Bible, a different work. However I have seen a couple of cases where English King James Bible information may not be in the Greek text. "Almost exact" - fine. The word "exact" is rarely applicable across languages.

Shalom,
Steven

I agree on the tone Steve. If I want to read heated arguments I'll join FFF.

I have copies of The Gsopels in Saxon and a NT Fragment in Goth. To me both are actually closer to Latin than anything.

On the street or in a hospital, someone's living room or a funeral home, we can't pack around 500 pounds of books on manuscript evidence. All we have is a Bible. We have the inspired word of God that brings saving faith, or we don't. The language(s) the NT was written in is not relevant to witnessing to the lost, we have is NOW, and that is all that matters.

Grace and peace to you.

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't the 1611 edition of the KJB have the Comma in italics?

Also, I'd be careful with Bro. Gomez' Bible...not only did he incorrectly and somewhat underhandedly use the Reina Valera name to apparently give his Bible more credibility, but he's also changed it multiple times as other Spanish-speaking missionaries and translators found error with it. One instance of error in the RVG (ugh!) is that he changed "salúd" in Psalms to "salvacíon." "Salúd" means "good health" or something along that line, while "salvacíon" means spiritual salvation. While at face value that seems to be a good change, remember that David thought his soul and his body were the same thing, and he had no idea that he needed spiritual "salvacíon." This is a blatant doctrinal error that would have never happened if they had stuck with the 1865 TRUE Reina Valera.

Both Luther and Erasmus rejected the Comma. Erasmus inserted it after a manuscript was given to him with it. It was added in the Luther Bible by a printer after his death.

I have a Bible program with a module for a Spanish Bible from the 1600s that follows the KJV pretty close.

Grace and peace

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Will Kinney

Hi Tony. This is just my own opinion, but in the main I am in agreement with you. I applaud the efforts of such brethren to take the gospel to the far ends of the earth. My wife and I also support missionaries in foreign lands. I do not at all believe one must learn English or be a King James Bible onlyist in order to get saved and grow in Christ.

However, where I do have a disagreement is when other brothers who use foreign language Bibles (Spanish, Polish, French, German, Swahili or whatever) try to make the claim that these other foreign language Bibles are also the complete, inspired and inerrant words of God, just like the King James Bible is. They are not; at least, I have never seen one yet that is. Some of them can be quite good and God can definitely use them to save souls; but that does not mean they are the 100% pure and preserved "Book of the LORD".

I have posted this before, (sorry for the repetition) but I still hold to this position.

If the King James Bible in English is the perfect words of God, then What About Other Languages?


This is a good question but not at all hard to answer if you think about it. God never promised to give every nation or every individual a perfect Bible. It certainly never turned out this way in history, did it?

In fact, for the first 3000 to 4000 years of recorded history, there was only one nation on earth that had the true words of God. "He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation, and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD." Psalm 147:19-20.

Now that the gospel is going out to the nations, the only promise from God we have is that "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matthew 24:14

The gospel of salvation through the substitutionary death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is found in any bible in any language it has been translated into, no matter how poorly or partially done it may be. God can and does use other bible versions, partial translations, or just simple gospel tracts to bring His people to faith in Christ. I do not deny but strongly affirm this to be true.

But that does not make these other partial translations, bible tracts or versions the perfect words of God. There has to be at least one perfect Bible in this world that serves as the Final Authority and Standard by which all others are measured.

It certainly does not exist in the Hebrew or the Greek. There is no "the Hebrew" and much less is there "the" Greek. Besides, once a complete Bible is put together, there has to be a translation of some kind in order to put both the Old and New Testaments into one language. Since God has promised to preserve His WORDS (not just the general, ballpark approximation) in the book of the LORD, this book must exist somewhere.

All the evidence points to the King James Bible as being that book for the last almost 400 years. It was the KJB that was used by English and American missionaries to carry to gospel to the nations in the greatest missionary movement in history. It was the KJB that was carried out into space and read from.

I believe in the sovereignty of God in history. "For the kingdom is the LORD'S; and He is the governor among the nations." Psalm 22:28. God has set His mark upon many things in this world that reveal His Divine hand at work in history. Why do we use the 7 day week instead of the 10 day week? Why are dates either B.C. (Before Christ) or A.D. (Anno Domini - year of our Lord)? (although the secular world is now trying in vain to change this too to BCE and CE.) England just "happens to be" the one nation from which we measure the true Time (Greenwich time, zero hour) and from which we measure true Position, zero longitude. In 1611 the English language was spoken by a mere 3% of the world's population, but today English has become the closest thing to a universal language in history. God knew He would use England, its language and the King James Bible to accomplish all these things long before they happened.

Today it is only the King James Bible believer who boldly maintains that there really is an inerrant, complete and 100% true Holy Bible on this earth that a person can actually hold it in his hands and read and believe every word. All modern version proponents deny that any tangible, “hold it in your hands and read Bible” IS now the inerrant words of God.

God only holds us accountable for the light He has been pleased to give us. To whom much is given, from him shall much be required - "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall much be required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48. God has given to the English speaking people His perfect words in the King James Bible. We will be held far more accountable for what we have done with this Book than any other people.

To the degree that foreign language bible versions follow the same underlying Hebrew and Greek texts, and to the degree that their individual translations match those found in the King James Bible, to that degree they can be considered to be the true words of God. To the degree that they depart from both the texts and meanings found in the KJB, to that degree they are corrupt and inferiour.

I do not believe that every foreigner in non-English speaking countries needs to learn the English language and read the King James Bible. Salvation through faith in the substitutionary death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ is not only found the King James Bible. If there are several different versions in their own native language (Spanish, German, Russian, Chinese, or whatever), then I would recommend they use the one that most closely follows the same Hebrew and Greek texts that underlie the King James Bible. If they only have a translation based on the ever changing, modern Critical Texts, then they should thank God for what they do have and use it.

Regarding the question of “Well, what about before 1611?” please see my article here:

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/before1611.html

As for: “Can a Translation be inspired?” please see:

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/transinsp.html

This is how I see it and what I believe. Not a difficult question at all.

In contrast to the KJB believer's views, the multiple choice, contradictory meanings, and "different, omitted, added, or made up underlying texts" proponent has no Final Written Authority or Standard by which all others are to be judged, and he has no inspired, inerrant and 100% true Bible to give or recommend to anyone.

By His grace, accepted in the Beloved,

Will Kinney

Will, for the purposes of the Scripture, there are 3: 1. Initail Revelation. 2. Propagation(copies) 3. It's use with believers and non-believers(Job 32:8. 3 is the reason they were given to us. God gave the canon for His words, we fight like dogs to propagate it, yet the inspiration in men to understand God is the rpime funsction right now. Doctrine is the #1 use for Scripture and it's purpose is our liason with God, through the Holy Ghost of God. I've had people object to that. I mean, does God need a copy of His words? I remember a tale of a US Army non-com spied for the Russians. He took pictures of maps showing Russian troop displacements. The Russian contact said, really, we do not need a US map to know where our troops are, lol.

We interpret the Universe through 5 senses in order that the 6th sense, the mind, can operate. The Scriptures are our passport, so to speak, to understanding God. We have His words in English, others are sweating blood to bring them to other languages.

I've had two objections in this thread: I don't think these men came here as intruders or enemies. That's how I see them treated, no matter how soft the objections to them are. The second is I see the KJV elevated to the point of the brass serpent of Moses. His words will be written in our hearts one day, those parts of His word we do not understand will be perfect. When that which is perfect has come what is that which is done in part shall be done away. I don't think there's a copy of the KJV in heaven written on gold plates. The KJV is worthless and uninspired to a Russian. If I show him or her His words out of my Russian Bible(which has the Comma in I John) I have no idea what is going on in that person's heart. The original manuscripts are worthless and uninspired to me, I cannot understand them. Our work is laid out for us by Paul regarding tongues, getting the word to the lost in as many "tongues" as we can, not smart bombing them into learning English.

It's a pleasure to be in touch with you again Will. I had a computer crash a few years ago set things back. Well, Robycop3's worst nightmare has returned, I am registering at FFF, I want to ask him if he's missed me

Grace and peace to you Brother.

Tony