[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by chette777

I take the meat and spit our the bones. but if the meat is poison I spit it out too.

Amen, Bro. Chette!

[Brother Tim]

A better option is to cut the meat away from the bones before putting it in your mouth. And if the meat is poisoned, don't stick it in your mouth to begin with. I'll leave it to the scholars among us to see the allegory.

[Cody1611]

Originally Posted by Luke

I agree that abortion is murder. However, in some cases, I do think it is justified (not in the biblical sense).

If my wife was going to die because of pregnancy, and the only way for her to live would be to abort the child, then I would send my child home to heaven, to save my wife from death. It would be a hard decision to make, and to live with, but I think it would be the right thing in THAT situation, since it is life or death.

Amen Luke, but why not just pray about it and trust God to save them both? Then again, is that kind of like not going to the doctor because you're sick and saying God will take care of it.

Anyways, what we need to know is that Peter Ruckman believes abortion is a SIN, even if he doesn't say it is murder. I disagree with Ruckman on this too. Another thing to think about is that...oxygen goes to the baby through the umbilical chord. I'm not sure if you would call that a breath or not though.

[Gord]

Brothers and Sisters, about all the Ruckman bashing, lets take a breath and let some patience prevail.

John 8:7 ..., He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

I know this opens another topic of the difference between a 'lay' person and a 'preacher' or 'teacher', but the principle still holds.

If I don't like to listen to or watch, then I don't. Everyone has that freedom to choose. Our Lord will render the truth in our hearts.

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Then we will all know.

[Forrest]

Brethren and (Sistren), I would like to share a personal event that helped me understand the sovereignty of God and the sanctity of life. I realize no one has questioned either the sovereignty of God or the sanctity of life. But I think this may shed some additional light on the subject.

Our youngest daughter was born during the 25th week (6 months) of pregnancy. At birth, she weighed only 1 lb and 8 oz. You can only imagine how delicate and frail she was. Sarah was a fragile 11” long. Her tiny feet were only about 1”. And my size 11 wedding ring fit her arm like a finger. She was intricately and perfectly formed.

The medical staff did their very best to stop my wife’s early labor; however, our sovereign God brought Sarah Beth forth from the womb 3 months early. I for one am grateful our Heavenly Father does not always answer our specific prayer requests. We fervently asked God to stop Paula’s labor. Logically we reasoned, “It’s too early.” Later we learned that there was a true knot in the umbilical cord and Sarah would have died had she not been born on God’s schedule.

Only minutes after her birth, she was hooked up to a ventilator for oxygen and placed in an incubator to keep her warm. I leaned over all of the tubes and wires and whispered as I prayed for her. When she heard my voice, her little forehead wrinkled, her eyebrows lifted upward, and it was as if she was trying to open her eyes. “That’s my Dad. I hear you!”

Did she acquire a spirit and a soul when she was delivered? Did she get a soul when they took her off oxygen and she “breathed” on her own? Was my little girl without a soul until she took her first unassisted breath of H2O? Or did her “spirit” and “soul” already exist by God’s design and plan when she was still in the safety of her mother's womb?

Sarah required oxygen through a machine for a period of 2 months after she was born or, otherwise, she would have died. During those two months we saw visible emotions and visible reactions as we spoke to her and read Holy Scripture aloud. All of this occurred before she ever took her first “unassisted breath” of air. She was unable to breathe on her own. A machine breathed for her. Did she have a spirit and a soul in the womb?

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Brethren and (Sistren), I would like to share a personal event that helped me understand the sovereignty of God and the sanctity of life. I realize no one has questioned either the sovereignty of God or the sanctity of life. But I think this may shed some additional light on the subject.

Our youngest daughter was born during the 25th week (6 months) of pregnancy. At birth, she weighed only 1 lb and 8 oz. You can only imagine how delicate and frail she was. Sarah was a fragile 11” long. Her tiny feet were only about 1”. And my size 11 wedding ring fit her arm like a finger. She was intricately and perfectly formed.

The medical staff did their very best to stop my wife’s early labor; however, our sovereign God brought Sarah Beth forth from the womb 3 months early. I for one am grateful our Heavenly Father does not always answer our specific prayer requests. We fervently asked God to stop Paula’s labor. Logically we reasoned, “It’s too early.” Later we learned that there was a true knot in the umbilical cord and Sarah would have died had she not been born on God’s schedule.

Only minutes after her birth, she was hooked up to a ventilator for oxygen and placed in an incubator to keep her warm. I leaned over all of the tubes and wires and whispered as I prayed for her. When she heard my voice, her little forehead wrinkled, her eyebrows lifted upward, and it was as if she was trying to open her eyes. “That’s my Dad. I hear you!”

Did she acquire a spirit and a soul when she was delivered? Did she get a soul when they took her off oxygen and she “breathed” on her own? Was my little girl without a soul until she took her first unassisted breath of H2O? Or did her “spirit” and “soul” already exist by God’s design and plan when she was still in the safety of her mother's womb?

Sarah required oxygen through a machine for a period of 2 months after she was born or, otherwise, she would have died. During those two months we saw visible emotions and visible reactions as we spoke to her and read Holy Scripture aloud. All of this occurred before she ever took her first “unassisted breath” of air. She was unable to breathe on her own. A machine breathed for her. Did she have a spirit and a soul in the womb?

Thank you brother for this. Praise Jesus for Sarah! Jesus loves the little children my brothers! Let's not ever forget this, nor forget that this is why some of us get so upset when we hear teachers/pastors teach something so wrong, even a fruitful brother such as brother Peter. Let us forgive him, an in doing so forgive ourselves.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

[atlas]

Gord,

Brothers and Sisters, about all the Ruckman bashing, lets take a breath and let some patience prevail.

This is not Ruckman bashing. I have defended on just about every issue, yet he is 100% wrong on this issue.

This is about the context of the bible and wrongly dividing God's word.


Atlas

Originally Posted by atlas

Now Luke I count you as a friend and a brother in Christ. I had to post it because it was so bad. I had no choice. Many folks like Ruckman and need to know the truth. The truth is what matters in any issue. I stand for what is right and oppose what wrong. I do not fallow a man when he leaves the Bible I do not care who this man is.

I have defended Ruckman on every issue other than this and UFO's. UFO's are not a big issue, this is. You can see my many post here where I defend Dr. Ruckman and you know this is true, however Ruckman is not my leader. The Lord is my Leader, NOT ANY MAN. I will not defend any man when he is wrong, I do not care who the man is. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The man is not the issue. The issue is right and wrong. Abortion is wrong If you do not like that, well to bad for you. If Ruckman was here I'd tell him the same thing. Like it or not, sin is sin and wrong is wrong. So if you are mad at me for posting this there is nothing I can do about it my friend. Let every man learn the truth. The truth will always hurt someone., but the truth is what we all need.

Brother, I agree with every word you've said. If Ruckman says something wrong, he shouldn't be followed in that area. There are subjects where I don't agree with him 100%; and, if the quote you posted - - - from an unusually brief video clip - - - represents all of his thinking on this subject, then he's wrong.

However, I repeat: we needn't jump on a brother just because he doesn't use the word "murder." (I don't use it myself; I consider it manslaughter or homicide. Why? Because I tend to think in legal terms. Certainly not because I'm "soft" on abortion: I hope nobody jumps to that conclusion, because I feel as strongly about abortion as anyone in this forum.) Why is the single word "murder" so important to some people?

Why do you need to hear the rest of it. Are you afraid of the truth.? I'm not. Here are the word for word quotes. What else needs to said. He is very plain on what he believes and why.

We do need to hear the rest of it, if we're to judge righteous judgment, and not merely react to a snippet of a full-length sermon. As a preacher, I wouldn't want anyone judging me from such a short segment. He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him (Pro. 18:13).

He takes Gen. 2:7 and tries to apply it to every man or woman ever born. This is so far out of context it's beyond crazy.

NOT ONE PERSON WAS EVER BORN THE WAY ADAM WAS MADE. THEREFORE YOU CAN NOT APPLY Gen. 2:7 TO ANY MAN OTHER THAN ADAM.

You can not apply Gen 2:7 to any man other than Adam. This is crazy, he is so far off base on this he is not even in the ball park. He is wrongly dividing the word of God on this issue.

How can any man apply gen 2:7 to a child born today.

God did not make the kids today out of dust did he? Did God breath life into a child born today? No he did not. This is one of the worst cases of WRONGLY DEVIDING Word of God I have ever seen. This is on the scale of any apostate Bible corrector. This is beyond bad and needs to be exposed for what it is.

Brother, you sound very emotional, and very upset, in this post; perhaps I'm wrong. But you needn't overstate your case. Saying that Ruckman is in the same ball park as Bible correctors is pretty harsh.

Here is the truth, RUCKMAN IS 100% WRONG!!!

As an example, if Benny Henn said this you'd be over him. If some other preacher said it you'd do the same. If Ruckman says it, oh well maybe I should not have posted it. Why not wrong is wrong no matter who says it. He is 100% wrong, he is out of line and wrongly dividing God's Word. If you can not see this you are brainwashed.

I hope I'm not brainwashed; I never heard Ruckman's name until I was in my 30s, and when I attended PBI, I was turning 40. Let's just cut to the chase:

If Ruckman says that abortion is not a grievous sin, then he's absolutely wrong. If Ruckman "excuses" abortion, he's horribly wrong. And, when I hear his remarks in their full context, I'll judge for myself.

I have heard Ruckman speak of the evolutionists' "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" mantra, which involves "proving" evolution from fetal development. That may have been where he was headed in this sermon; but I simply don't know yet.

No offense intended in this post, Brother Atlas. I appreciate and respect you.

[atlas]

Vendetta Ride,

Well buddy I can not even find the rest of the message. I do not even know what the name of it is. If you have it all send it to me I'll hear any man out.

Brother, you sound very emotional, and very upset,

I am very upset, I was blew away by the fact that he believes this crap. I would have never thought he would take this stand on the issue that abortion is not murder and base this on Gen 2:7 out of context. What he did say was very easy to understand.

This is a big issue brother. There have been many babies killed, 50,000,000 it the number. This is not a small issue brother. This is a deal.


Atlas

Originally Posted by atlas

Vendetta Ride,

Well buddy I can not even find the rest of the message. I do not even know what the name of it is. If you have it all send it to me I'll hear any man out.



I am very upset, I was blew away by the fact that he believes this crap. I would have never thought he would take this stand on the issue that abortion is not murder and base this on Gen 2:7 out of context. What he did say was very easy to understand.

This is a big issue brother. There have been many babies killed, 50,000,000 it the number. This is not a small issue brother. This is a deal.


Atlas

I know how big the issue is. Several people in my own life (one in my own family) have been touched by it. It's horrible.

I don't know what sermon the clip comes from. The "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" stuff (his disproof of that theory) is in his Science and Philosophy book. And he's made an entire series of videos on Evolution, as you know.