Originally Posted by Brother Tim

MDOC, there is ample information to counter your theory on "study" on the thread so-named. See http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210

"Study to divide the word of truth?" That's not the ultimate purpose of studying the word. The purpose is to do it. This rhymes with all the related points of scripture, including the OT, that culminates into the final conclusion of Ecclessiastics: Fear God and keep his commandments. Studying is not the purpose of study nor is it an end to itself.

edit: an example of one of these "points" is Joshua 22:5.

[George]

Originally Posted by Connie

This is not the literal individual word of any particular language, it's His communication to us, the conveyance of His truth to us.

Word = message, truth, communication, revelation.

For the sake of clarity, here's Diligent's answer to me for context, to show that he is insisting on "individual words":



Matthew Henry reads it as I read it:

For thou hast magnified thy word (thy promise, which is truth) above all thy name. God has made himself known to us in many ways in creation and providence, but most clearly by his word. The judgments of his mouth are magnified even above those of his hand, and greater things are done by them. The wonders of grace exceed the wonders of nature; and what is discovered of God by revelation is much greater than what is discovered by reason. In what God had done for David his faithfulness to his work appeared more illustriously, and redounded more to his glory, than any other of his attributes. Some good interpreters understand it of Christ, the essential Word, and of his gospel, which are magnified above all the discoveries God had before made of himself to the fathers. He that magnified the law, and made that honourable, magnifies the gospel much more.

As all good "Humanists" eventually you run to your "Final Authorities" = MEN, and their opinions, and to your ultimate "FINAL AUTHORITY" your own worthless opinions. I've said it before and I'll say it again - You refuse to receive instruction and have the "gall" to try to "correct" us while all the while you have so little spiritual discernment or understanding.

Keep on relying on your "intellect" and see how far it will get you with God - I'm sure He is impressed!

Proverbs 29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

This applies "double" to some women - and if the shoe fits wear it!

Originally Posted by jerry

and the context shows that the written Word is in view - that would make it a reference to all that God has written, including individual words).

You are right, I did blur the two meanings together, because both seemed right and I didn't get it sorted out, and still haven't completely. I rather think it means both.

But accepting that it is about the written Word, I've answered that anyway - you are reducing God's word, which means His communication, message, revelation, truth, to the literal language code itself.

George, I don't want to fight with you. You are relying on YOUR intellect and YOUR opinions and don't seem to know it. It is just another superstitious misreading of God's word to say that we are not to regard the works of men who are following God and are in positions of God-given authority. If that were the case then nobody should listen to you either. You misapply "humanist" and you misapply "sophist" and you make a person an offender based on your own hidebound misreading of God's word.

Scripture is ALWAYS the final authority. But YOUR reading of it or Matthew Henry's or mine is ALWAYS a question. Your quoting scripture right and left does not convey any more than your own opinion about the scripture.

[George]

Originally Posted by Connie

George, I don't want to fight with you. You are relying on YOUR intellect and YOUR opinions and don't seem to know it. It is just another superstitious misreading of God's word to say that we are not to regard the works of men who are following God and are in positions of God-given authority. If that were the case then nobody should listen to you either. You misapply "humanist" and you misapply "sophist" and you make a person an offender based on your own hidebound misreading of God's word.

Scripture is ALWAYS the final authority. But YOUR reading of it or Matthew Henry's or mine is ALWAYS a question. Your quoting scripture right and left does not convey any more than your own opinion about the scripture.

And with this lovely piece of "sophistry" you have just proven my point: You refuse to receive instruction! How can my "quoting scripture right and left" be conveying just my own opinion? Do you have a sound mind? The whole purpose of quoting scripture is to avoid my giving you my own opinion! The whole purpose is for your edification - But you refuse to receive instruction!

Scripture is ALWAYS the final authority. But YOUR reading of it or Matthew Henry's or mine is ALWAYS a question.

The foregoing little "gem" is a perfect example of not only "sophistry", but it is also a prime example of the results of "the Socratic Method" - always "QUESTIONING EVERYTHING" -never able to come to a final conclusion (I think your term = "hidebound")

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Who made Matthew Henry an "authority" over me or you? From the inception of the church of God up to the present day - the churches (all of them eventually) have always gone into "apostasy" and become "reprobate" by following "men who are following God and are in positions of God-given authority", rather than following the Holy scriptures of truth.

And finally - and I mean "FINALLY"! Your "cheap shot" at me (why me?) in your post #6, this same subject:

(P.S. Yes, George, my "druthers" are irrelevant, I know. I could give an objective argument for all my recommendations if you like, but so could others who disagree with me.)

(which I initially let pass - considering the source) is indicative of a woman who has been "OUT OF ORDER" for some time and who obviously cannot display even the simplest of graces (respect and consideration) for the fact that I am an elder in a church and have been happily married for 47 years, and have successfully raised 7 children in the fear and admonition of the Lord).

Who are you, that every time an opportunity arises, you show disrespect towards me, but on the other hand you hold all of these dead men in high regard (as "Authorities"). Are they any better than me?

For what purpose do you "denigrate" a man (me), who is trying to follow God according to the Holy Scriptures? Are you trying to "edify" or are you trying to tear down? Are you trying to set up yourself as an "authority" as opposed to me? I am finished (for the second time) trying to deal with you. You are incorrigible. You've got a "heart problem" that cannot be "fixed" unless you work on it.

Here are some more Scriptures (right and left) for your correction and edification - although they are addressed to men, they apply to women to:

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 16:22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.

Proverbs 15:31 The ear that heareth the reproof of life abideth among the wise.
32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Proverbs 13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.

Proverbs 5:12 And say, How have I hated instruction, and my heart despised reproof;

Psalms 50:17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.

Jeremiah 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction.

Jeremiah 32:33 And they have turned unto me the back, and not the face: though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not hearkened to receive instruction.

Aloha, nui loa,

George

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Connie

This is not the literal individual word of any particular language, it's His communication to us, the conveyance of His truth to us.

Word = message, truth, communication, revelation.

Uh, just what do you think God's message is made of, if not words!?

Your "view" of God's word is totally unscriptural. The very words are indeed what matter. And of course the "communication" matters -- it's what we get from the words. If you say the words don't matter but the "message" does, you are putting the cart before the horse.

Jeremiah 36:17-18 And they asked Baruch, saying, Tell us now, How didst thou write all these words at his mouth? Then Baruch answered them, He pronounced all these words unto me with his mouth, and I wrote them with ink in the book.

Just how does one divine the "message" without the words?

Originally Posted by Diligent

Uh, just what do you think God's message is made of, if not words!?

Your "view" of God's word is totally unscriptural. The very words are indeed what matter. And of course the "communication" matters -- it's what we get from the words. If you say the words don't matter but the "message" does, you are putting the cart before the horse.

Jeremiah 36:17-18 And they asked Baruch, saying, Tell us now, How didst thou write all these words at his mouth? Then Baruch answered them, He pronounced all these words unto me with his mouth, and I wrote them with ink in the book.

Just how does one divine the "message" without the words?

Joh 6:63
(63) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Oh good grief. I didn't say we do WITHOUT the words, Diligent, just that it's the MEANING of the words, the MESSAGE of the words, the REVELATION, the TRUTH that matters. It's simply a FACT that different English words in different times convey different shades of the truth and sometimes entirely different meanings, a fact so many here seem unwilling to recognize. The simple passage of time changes the meaning of words and thus changes the meaning of GOD's word. It can't be helped. The words, the individual words, DO matter, they matter a GREAT deal, they have to be ACCURATE, they have to convey what God meant to be conveyed, and if the original English words have changed their meanings they HAVE to be updated so that we CAN have the true individual words that convey the true meaning God intended.

I understand that you are passionately committed to holding onto the inspired status of the King James Bible and are deathly afraid that some "humanist" like myself and others here might shake people's confidence in it as God perfect word. The intention is laudable but you just end up painting yourselves into a corner, and in fact put yourselves in the position of obstructing the availability of God's word. We need a new updated King James. We need it done by the right people appointed by the right churches. We aren't going to get it because the churches are blinded by the new versions, because few recognize the importance of the problem, and last but not least because of the hidebound superstitiousness of the KJB-only crowd who impute divine status to Elizabethan English. Of course God is in charge of language, but He's also in charge of His people and knows how to guide the right men to keep His word updated without losing anything essential in the old language. Satan has a vested interest in keeping the King James unavailable to the majority and this is one way he can do it.

Originally Posted by Connie

I understand that you are passionately committed to holding onto the inspired status of the King James Bible and are deathly afraid that some "humanist" like myself and others here might shake people's confidence in it as God perfect word. The intention is laudable but you just end up painting yourselves into a corner, and in fact put yourselves in the position of obstructing the availability of God's word. We need a new updated King James. We need it done by the right people appointed by the right churches. We aren't going to get it because the churches are blinded by the new versions, because few recognize the importance of the problem, and last but not least because of the hidebound superstitiousness of the KJB-only crowd who impute divine status to Elizabethan English. Of course God is in charge of language, but He's also in charge of His people and knows how to guide the right men to keep His word updated without losing anything essential in the old language. Satan has a vested interest in keeping the King James unavailable to the majority and this is one way he can do it.

I'm not a humanist, but there's the opposite side of this spectrum: the Word has become the idol; the Word is worshipped instead of the creator who spoke it. That's why they are so bound to this kind of flakiness.

Actually, I don't want a new translation; I'm already used to the old KJV.