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#41
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According to Genesis 43:32, it's not true that "only Israel under the Law was ever concerned with such things." The Bible says, "the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews; for that is an abomination to the Egyptians." I disagree with most of what has been posted on this thread, but I DON'T want to argue - I would like to try to understand where y'all are coming from! For instance, Acts 17:26 is about the physical bodies of people, which is what gets married...while Galatians 3:28 is completely spiritual (I know this has been said already...bear with me!) My question is - How can you make one part of the list in that verse ("Jew nor Greek") PHYSICAL and leave the other parts of the same list SPIRITUAL? My point is that if we are not supposed to take any note of "race" now that we're in Christ, why are we to notice any PHYSICAL difference in male and female - the verse DOES say "there is neither male nor female!!!" So I just want to know how you reconcile that... I also want to say that I appreciate these discussions because they make me THINK and search the scriptures...THANKS! Pam www.custerfamilyfarm.com |
#42
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As far as I can tell, any worldly system of thought develops over time. Ideas percolate through the decades or centuries until the time is right and a suitable "messenger" is in place to deliver the new "truth". I tend to look at human history in terms of what God is doing and what Satan is doing. That's what everything boils down to, anyway, don't you think? The Wiki link below has an explanation of the history of evolutionary thought and it's impact on culture, society and religion. I would add that occultists like Blavatsky, et al, were used as conduits by satanic forces through their demon possession and automatic writing to provide the spiritual, philosophical impetus behind the evolutionary movement. We just need to look around us in modern society to see the devastation that evolutionary thought has brought us. There is one race of man and that is the race of Adam. Brandon is right, there is no choice but to use the word "race" when speaking about the different nations on this earth because no one would know what you're talking about if you use the word nation. Once society accepts the satanic concept of humanity being divided into different races based on genetic differences, or on how far up the evolutionary ladder one race is compared to another, it becomes easier to dehumanize certain families of mankind. Blavatsky's body of material she received directly from a demon or devil "guide", as well as "scientific" evolutionary thought was incorporated into Hitler's highly occultic belief system. On a side note, I think there may be some confusion over the term "nation". I could be wrong but I believe that biblically a nation can be defined as the descendants of a particular father which is laid out in Gen 10 in the table of nations. These biblical nations do have boundaries, etc as set out by God. In our modern language we use "nation" to describe a sovereign state which may be made up of people from the same "biblical" nation or family (take Iran or Egypt for instance) or to describe countries like America which is made up of many of the familes or nations of mankind. One of the ways that I see this lie of different races within the race of man affect the church is that we yet again try to take Israel's role upon our selves. The Savior came through the Jews and that is why God had rules about intermarriage between Israelites and gentiles. Really, the gentile national distinctions aren't very important in the scheme of things, at least not in the context we have been discussing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evoluti...ionary_thought Jennifer |
#43
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Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;This verse was presented as a proof text for disallowing "race mixing." The verse says nations, and doesn't even include a command preventing migration, let along intermarriage between nations. If you (or someone else) is going to hold up this verse as proof that "race mixing" is not allowed, you're going to have to first explain why it's okay for a German to marry a Frenchman, since they have different "bounds of habitation." Then you're going to have to explain why you don't advocate that we white people all move back to Europe (presumably our original "bounds of habitation") and give the Americas back to the American Indians. Maybe after that is all settled, we can figure out what that verse has to do with marriage of people from different nationalities, but only after you tell all those people, like me, with mixed heritages where they can go to get spouses. Quote:
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If someone is going to "forbid" marriage between two people, they had better come up with a solid Scriptural basis for it. The idea that they have to be from the same "ites" (if such a thing can even be determined now) is nothing you can get from Scripture, unless you are Hebrew under the law considering marriage with a Canaanite! |
#44
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#45
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Genesis 10, the word Nations is used four times: Genesis 10:5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.Note that the word nations refers to the families of the sons of Noah. Applying the distinction of nations (to hold to "bounds of habitation" via Acts 17:26) to just the three (Ham, Japheth, and Shem) is completely arbitrary and insufficient, if you are serious about the non-intermarriage between nations stuff. The Bible goes a lot further than just the top three in defining the nations, so my objection and question about Germans marrying French is in point of fact quite germane. |
#46
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Aloha Brandon, I agree with all that you have said regarding this issue. There is a point in this "discussion" that, as far as I know, has not been brought up, but I think is very appropriate to the issue. And that is the "culture" in which each of us (who have commented on the issue) has been raised (or "trained"). I have said it before, but I will say it again: Generally speaking - "CULTURE" will "TRUMP" religion almost all of the time! That is one of the reason's for God giving us His Holy word so that: . . . "ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." [John 8:32] And that includes being "free" from ALL "cultural" BIASES and PREJUDICES! It would be interesting to know what the "cultural" background is of those people who hold to the belief that "mixed" marriages are not Biblical. I would venture to say that these "personal beliefs" stem from the "culture" that these people were brought up in and not from the Bible. Several of us have pointed out (from the Scriptures) that there is no Biblical prohibition (for Christians) to marry outside of their "race" or "culture". In those past "Threads" on this issue, we repeatedly asked for Scriptural PROOF of such a "prohibition", for Christians, and were never given any - other than the prohibitions given to the Israelites (which we are NOT). And now, in dealing with the issue in this Thread (Love & Race) we have again asked for Scripture prohibiting Christians marrying outside of their "race and "culture", and all we have gotten (so far) is someone's "personal opinion" as to WHY they don't believe that "mixed" marriages are "right". When we Christians place "regional customs" or "cultural traditions" above or before clear Biblical teaching, we are in effect "making the word of God of none effect" (in our lives - Mark 7:13). If someone on this Forum believes that it is Scripturally "wrong" for a Christian (man or woman) to marry outside of their "race" or "culture", I ask them to "show me" (from the Scriptures) - WHY it is "wrong"? And if they cannot demonstrate (from the Scriptures) WHY it is "wrong", I would ask them to examine their hearts and ask themselves WHY do I believe this, IF I CANNOT "prove" (from Scripture) WHAT I believe? Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. |
#47
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I spent my computer time tonight reading the other "race" thread...I'm going camping tomorrow and may not be back (on here) until Monday...didn't want you to think I ran! I still have more info and questions (YES, WITH SCRIPTURE!!!)
Pam www.custerfamilyfarm.com |
#48
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Don't you agree that God was filled with wrath, when his people intermarried with non-Hebrews? God said NOT to marry anyone outside the faith.
It's all through the Old Testament. All through it. And, the penalties for disobeying God, by marrying someone NOT of their faith. Same holds true today. A Christian has very little in common with a non-Christian. Quote:
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#49
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I always thought that Corinthians 7:14 was dealing with people who were ALREADY married. That if you were already married and didn't know this, you should of course stay married and that the children are holy, due to the believing spouse. I never thought of it as being that anyone could marry an unbeliever. If that is so, from the Bible, I am sure that it would be a much more difficult marriage! Jassy |
#50
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I understand what you're saying, yet if we go back and depend on what God said to the Hebrews and we are to follow that, then you would have to say that His Church is very messed up today!!! We have intermingled all kinds of faiths and "races" (oh dear this is becoming a very touchy word to use here!). How is God going to deal with all this intermingling? As I was saying in a previous post, I'm 3/4th German - if I can't marry outside my nationality, then I'm going to have to pack up and move to Germany to marry a German. The problem with that is that I'm already NOT PURE GERMAN stock! America is a really hodgepodge of peoples! I believe God's warning for the Hebrews was to keep them from worshipping IDOLS, because they were dispersed into many lands of NON-Hebrews. Many around them were idol-worshippers. It is my belief that we are now in the dispensational time of Paul's preaching on GRACE. The Church is now under GRACE and no longer under Hebrewic LAW. Do you believe that everything in the Bible applies to everyone? Or how do you pick and choose, and decide which Scriptures apply to YOU? For me, that would be very confusing and I admit that I was, in the past, very confused about this very issue. I feel much more secure, in knowing that Paul has brought a new gospel to the Church. Please note that Paul even called it "my gospel" (See Romans 2:16, 16:25 and 2 Timothy 2:8) and said that God would judge people by Jesus Christ, according to his (Paul's) gospel! You said that "God said NOT to marry anyone outside the faith. It's all through the Old Testament. All through it. And, the penalties for disobeying God, by marrying someone NOT of their faith. Same holds true today." Where do you get that from, in the Bible, that the "Same holds true today."? Jassy |
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