[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by cookiemonster

Capitalizations in English were the interpretation of the KJV translators; the "word" or "Word" is the same "logos" in the Greek.

At least they got the right interpretation. Or, do you imply you are a better translator than them?

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by cookiemonster

There seems to be a disconnect between your first two statements - you seem to acknowledge that the Incarnate, Living Word - Jesus Christ - was on earth, and is no longer on earth, but will come again; why not the Written Word?

You mean, a Second Coming for the Written Word?

Originally Posted by cookiemonster

Is it pointless for God to emphasize that Jesus Christ is eternal, but that He is no longer physically here on earth? If it isn't pointless, then why not also the Written Word?

God was right. The Eternal, Incarnate Word was in heaven, came down to earth, went up back to heaven, and will come again on earth.
Therefore, the Eternal Written Word can also be on this earth as the Incarnate Word stepped foot on this earth. It was in heaven, was copied on earth, and will be here as long as the world is here, and will continue to be here even if heaven and earth pass away.

In other words, if the Incarnate Word came to earth, how can anyone say the Written Word has never been on earth??

Do they have to be in the same place all the time? God the Father was in heaven when God the Son was on earth and God the Spirit descended. Why can't God the Son leave His written Word to us on earth?

Originally Posted by cookiemonster

Yes, there is corruption on earth - why did God take Jesus Christ back to heaven when it seems like He is more needed here on earth, right now, and in the past 2000 years? Wouldn't it make more sense that God would keep Him here? Why can't this argument be made also for the written Word of God?

We need God's Written Word on earth TODAY more than ever because it tells about the Incarnate Word Who is now in heaven.

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

At least they got the right interpretation. Or, do you imply you are a better translator than them?

I am not implying that I am a better translator than they were - what I am saying is that there exists a possibility of multiple translations and interpretations.

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

In other words, if the Incarnate Word came to earth, how can anyone say the Written Word has never been on earth??

I'm not saying that the perfect Written Word was never on earth - obviously it was, in the form of the originals as penned by the prophets, apostles, etc.

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

Do they have to be in the same place all the time? God the Father was in heaven when God the Son was on earth and God the Spirit descended. Why can't God the Son leave His written Word to us on earth?

God did leave His written Word on earth, in the form of copies and translations. And in those copies and translations, there exists variations, to a smaller or lesser degree. As I wrote earlier, the parallels I see is this:

The living Word, Jesus, was taken up into heaven; He left copies of Himself, imperfect Christians, or "little Christs," here on earth to speak His Word and Gospel. Though imperfect, faithful Christians are still the adopted in God's family and are considered God's children.

In the same way, the written Word was/could have been taken up into heaven: "For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." (Ps 119:89); copies were left from which translations were made. Though imperfect, faithful copies and translations are still considered to be the word of God, and can communicate God's Gospel, though through a "glass darkly" and not perfectly.

What I challenge you, and others here, is this: show me clear, Scriptural proof that the written Word is currently and has been on earth perfectly. Not logic, not desire, not common sense to infer that - just pure Scripture; this is what I have not seen to date.

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

We need God's Written Word on earth TODAY more than ever because it tells about the Incarnate Word Who is now in heaven.

Yes, I agree - we do need God's Written Word on earth, and we have it. Even not 100% perfect on earth, it still communicates God's message. In the same way, just as you and I are neither 100% perfect copies of Christ, we can still communicate God's message.

[Biblestudent]

As living epistles of Christ, we are "PERFECT in Christ".

On the other hand, John 17:17 says God's Word is TRUTH as God's Son is the TRUTH (John 14:6). "Every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", according to Jesus Christ, "IT IS WRITTEN." (Matthew 4:4). All SCRIPTURE (written) is given by INSPIRATION OF GOD (2Timothy 3:16), and Timothy didn't have the originals, but he knew the SCRIPTURE (2 Timtohy 3:15) from childhood.

Furthermore, this SCRIPTURE will make the "man of God" PERFECT (2 Timothy 3:17). If we have men of God today, than we have inspired Scripture today, or else 2 Timothy 3:15-17 has no application whatsoever today.

Finally, we are not THE TRUTH.
Jesus Christ is THE TRUTH.
His Word, called "SCRIPTURE" (written), is THE TRUTH.
We are to preach Scripture. Where is it?

[bibleprotector]

He left copies of Himself, imperfect Christians, or "little Christs," here on earth to speak His Word and Gospel.

Was Christ imperfect? Christ is present today, first by proxy, the Holy Ghost, who is perfect, and secondly, by His body the Church, which is to be perfect. Even if you said that people were manifesting "imperfection" today, this doctrine still requires the perfecting of the saints before the return of Christ (see Ephesians 4:12, etc.). After all, that is what "little Christs" should be: "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). (You can never be a "little Christ" if you do not have the Word of God.) "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48). This is a commandment you cannot obey if you deny that the fullness of the Scripture is available to know. I believe perfect Christians (i.e. the true believers who are ready when Christ returns) must have believed and promote a perfect Bible (i.e. one ONLY that has come out of history).

[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

Originally Posted by cookiemonster

show me clear, Scriptural proof that the written Word is currently and has been on earth perfectly. Not logic, not desire, not common sense to infer that - just pure Scripture; this is what I have not seen to date.

If the written Word is not on earth perfectly I can not show you any perfect written proof of anything at all.

And an imperfect proof is no proof at all.

Shalom,
Steven

[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

Originally Posted by cookiemonster

show me clear, Scriptural proof that the written Word is currently and has been on earth perfectly. Not logic, not desire, not common sense to infer that - just pure Scripture

And the irony is also that you are asking us to use the very tool, 'pure Scripture', that you claim we do not have available.

This may be your logical conundrum.

Reductio ad absurdum => false proposition/premise

Your premise is that pure, tangible Scripture exists, yet that this Scripture supports the non-existence of pure, tangible Scripture.

It is true that you can argue quite effectively from the modern versions that their words support the premise (and truth) that they are not pure Scripture. The skeptics and liberals do that quite well. However you cannot reach that point by considering them pure Scripture.

Shalom,
Steven

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

If we have men of God today, than we have inspired Scripture today, or else 2 Timothy 3:15-17 has no application whatsoever today.

"if ... then" - that is human logic, not clear Scriptural proof of perfect Scripture on earth today. 2 Tim 3:15-17 doesn't say that we need perfect Scripture to be a "man of God".

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

We are to preach Scripture. Where is it?

"For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven." Psa 119:89. For me, this clearly says that God's Word is settled (total, perfect) in heaven. And as my many previous posts show, I believe we have faithful, though not necessarily perfect, copies and translations today. How could Moses be a "man of God" if he didn't have the perfect/whole canon in his time? By your logic, he couldn't have been a man of God.

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

Was Christ imperfect? Christ is present today, first by proxy, the Holy Ghost, who is perfect, and secondly, by His body the Church, which is to be perfect. Even if you said that people were manifesting "imperfection" today, this doctrine still requires the perfecting of the saints before the return of Christ (see Ephesians 4:12, etc.). After all, that is what "little Christs" should be: "If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35). (You can never be a "little Christ" if you do not have the Word of God.) "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:48). This is a commandment you cannot obey if you deny that the fullness of the Scripture is available to know. I believe perfect Christians (i.e. the true believers who are ready when Christ returns) must have believed and promote a perfect Bible (i.e. one ONLY that has come out of history).

Eph 4:12 - "perfecting of the saints", imply a constant development towards perfection, though not having reached perfection itself.

Again, I understand Matthew 5:48 in the light of Phl 3:12 where the Apostle Paul states "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." Paul clarifies Christ's statement; to be perfect means we are to strive towards perfection.

Did Job have the KJV? He was "perfect and upright" (Jb 1:1).