[Brother Tim]

MDOC, there is ample information to counter your theory on "study" on the thread so-named. See http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210

Actually I agree with you, MDOC, about the need for study aids in any case. I suppose I went overboard trying to agree with George about how the new versions have imposed an unnecessary burden on Christians and got us relying on secondary sources that sometimes are more harm than help. However, I'm also thinking of a time when Christians had only the Bible, if that, and nothing else, which I think was the case for the majority of Christians at least since the Reformation. Of course illiteracy was also a problem for a lot of that time. They did have preachers, and if preachers were more reliable than they are today, that was their study aid.

Dilgent, you may be right that updating in the last century has all been corrupt, but that doesn't change the need for updating. It's just been done by the wrong people. It shouldn't be done by self-appointed people and publishers. You may also be right that this corruption won't change. For one thing there probably isn't time before the Lord returns. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change it so that we can have an uncorrupted updated Bible.

The word God has magnified above His own name is His Bible, Diligent, His inspired message to us, incarnate in His own Son, it's not every individual word. That in itself is a misreading of God's word.

Yeah, I'm a "humanist" though I spend most of my life fighting humanism and all kinds of intellectual mistreatments of the things of God. I guess I had to come to this site to learn just how far words can be misused even by people who start out pointed in the right direction.

The problem is that for all the good you guys do here, and you do a lot of good and I'm grateful for it, you commit sophistry yourselves and don't even recognize it.

Originally Posted by Diligent

It has been made abundantly clear that he is wrong on this point.

It 's abundantly clear that no counter-argument has been levied yet, Bud.

This is not the literal individual word of any particular language, it's His communication to us, the conveyance of His truth to us.

Word = message, truth, communication, revelation.

For the sake of clarity, here's Diligent's answer to me for context, to show that he is insisting on "individual words":

Originally Posted by Diligent

Chapter and verse, please? What makes you think that the word God has magnified above his very own name is less important to God than your obedience and understanding of it?

Matthew Henry reads it as I read it:

For thou hast magnified thy word (thy promise, which is truth) above all thy name. God has made himself known to us in many ways in creation and providence, but most clearly by his word. The judgments of his mouth are magnified even above those of his hand, and greater things are done by them. The wonders of grace exceed the wonders of nature; and what is discovered of God by revelation is much greater than what is discovered by reason. In what God had done for David his faithfulness to his work appeared more illustriously, and redounded more to his glory, than any other of his attributes. Some good interpreters understand it of Christ, the essential Word, and of his gospel, which are magnified above all the discoveries God had before made of himself to the fathers. He that magnified the law, and made that honourable, magnifies the gospel much more.

Originally Posted by Connie

The word God has magnified above His own name is His Bible, Diligent, His inspired message to us, incarnate in His own Son, it's not every individual word. That in itself is a misreading of God's word.

Which is that verse referring to Jesus Christ or His Word? You can't have it both ways? Either it is referring to the written Word or the Incarnate Word (and the context shows that the written Word is in view - that would make it a reference to all that God has written, including individual words).

Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Originally Posted by MDOC

It 's abundantly clear that no counter-argument has been levied yet, Bud.

Getting rude with the Admin of these boards is not going to get you anywhere - except for alienated and/or banned.

Originally Posted by Connie

Actually I agree with you, MDOC, about the need for study aids in any case. I suppose I went overboard trying to agree with George about how the new versions have imposed an unnecessary burden on Christians and got us relying on secondary sources that sometimes are more harm than help. However, I'm also thinking of a time when Christians had only the Bible, if that, and nothing else, which I think was the case for the majority of Christians at least since the Reformation. Of course illiteracy was also a problem for a lot of that time. They did have preachers, and if preachers were more reliable than they are today, that was their study aid.

There was a time when the Patriarchs had nothing to study. They had only the relationship with God. But the study aids do help... and we do have the Word here. Makes you think: what are we missing here? Yeah, study aids might help, but it ain't to be equated with the scriptures as far as inspired. Good point.

Originally Posted by jerry

Getting rude with the Admin of these boards is not going to get you anywhere - except for alienated and/or banned.

I wasn't rude, and I'm not alienated or banned.

[George]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

What vain and foolish person thinks that he understands all the Bible at once? Who instantly knows all the King James Bible words and their meanings? What man thinks he knows the thoughts of another man, but is lying? And what error is it to judge contrary to the Spirit!

The greater parts of the body of Christ were told told not to reject the rest. If any think he have his own knowledge, he has just rejected the Holy Ghost. If a man has understanding, let him instruct in meekness, not exalt himself as having Nicolaitan power with the Scripture.

"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts." (Isaiah 28:9).

Aloha brother,

You will notice that since I joined this Forum I haven't commented on your posts. The reason is I figure that you have been trying to glorify our God and His Holy word(s) and edify the brethren (both of which I admire and appreciate).

It took me a long time (far too long - I'm a bit "thick") to understand that there are some "Christians" out there that have no more regard for God's word or God's words (the Holy scriptures of truth) than an atheist or agnostic. Pay no attention to them. We can't "change" them; "fix" them; or "help" them - no matter what we do or say:

Proverbs 29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

I appreciate your efforts to extol and uphold God's words - don't ever let the Sophists out there get you down or discourage you.

By the way: I got saved in 1958 reading a real "fancy" King James Bible; went to the Schofield & Thompson Chain; and then around 1970 or so I decided that I didn't want man's opinion mixed in with the Holy words of God so I opted for a Nelson Bible without references or "helps".

I went through two (2) Nelson's in the seventies (so-so quality bindings), and came upon a couple of "Cambridges" in the early to middle eighties, which I purchased for my wife and I. These are the same Bibles that we are using today!

Without knowing what you found out through hard study, we ended up with the very best there is - Praise God!

Keep up the good work and just ignore those who only know how to criticize and tear down.

Yours for the Lord Jesus Christ and for His Holy word,

Georeg