[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by Renee

Just a Thought.

Here is a thought for you.

Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

I would dare say, most people who post here do so to edify others, not debate.

Aloha Renee

OK but there is notjing wrong with debating. People do it here and say they are trying to help each other out. One post a verse followed by thier thoughts and then the other counters with the same. Call it what you will but that is debating.

[Brother Tim]

Friends "discuss", opponents "debate". The intention of discussion should be the broadening of knowledge. The intention of debate is to win.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Ehh? Who taught you this, of course there are heroes! there is nothing wrong with heros!
Okay, rant over, sorry Bro. Jeremy.

Out of all the words to pick on me about you just had to choose hero.
Bad choice of words,yes there are heros,ok.
Everytime i hear that word "hero "it brings up bad memories. like this song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-T1h7J0R-Q
Oh how painful,to listen without wanting to run out of the room kicking and screaming
Like fingernails down a chalkboard.

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Friends "discuss", opponents "debate". The intention of discussion should be the broadening of knowledge. The intention of debate is to win.

Our definitions are different but if we follow your definitions then I would pick the word discuss over debate.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Cody1611

Sorry for my unnecessary comment. I didn't think a brother in Christ would take it the wrong way.

I got it. Bad brother Cody,now go stand in the corner!

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

After reading many posts it seems that Peter Ruckman is a forum hero. I am not completely surprised but I was wondering why? Is it just his stance on the KJV or are their other issues in which he is so highly admired for? I am just curious.

JAT, my differences with Dr. Ruckman mostly are doctrinal. Doc Pete is a Baptist, I'm not. I came out of the Church Of Christ where any and all versions nearly are acceptable. I attended several Name-It Claim-It Pentecostal churches until I noticed a lot of people were naming and next to none claiming. There followed a two year limbo in a Bride Church where at least the preaching was good, I was mostly a knothole in a pew. A gentleman did a presentation on why the KJV was the inspired word of God FROM the word of God rather than manuscript evidence. I was using both a KJV and NASB. I kept the NASB as evidence, so to speak.

I attended one church that was dispensational and fundamentalist and from there I began reading Dr. Ruckman's books, I had nearly all of them. We call ourselves Grace Believers, Baptists call us Dry Cleaners. Of course, COC calls all of us damned, which is why I left them. You can't get a smile out of them at gunpoint. Rejecting the Calvinism and multi version original manuscript fraud of Stam, we had Richard Jordan in the church as a guest speaker. Jordan was booted out of the presidency of the Bereans when he made the statement the Bereans would use only the KJV, and Stam would not have that. Jordan attended Ruckman's school, BTW. I know Richard personally and consider him a brother and friend. I know Baptists I consider brothers and friends. I know a few unsaved Vietnam vets I consider brothers and friends. We can have brothers and friends in both worlds without making them gurus. That's part of your question here I think.

Dr. Ruckman has a following and like all followings there is a minority who are somewhat unsavory. Most the Christians I know who follow Dr. Ruckman do so as Christian gentlemen, recognize he has faults as we all do. Once in heaven me and Paul of Tarsus will have a fist fight over who is the least of Christians. So in naming Christians with faults, I am at the head of the list. This minority faction views Doc Pete as a guru, they emulate his dress, his speech("you moron", I prefer David Letterman's "mow-ron". In times of anger I have been noted to spout "knucklehead" a few times), they even emulate his prayer stance(on one knee with head in hands. I don't bow my head in prayer but look to heaven, as Jesus did in John 17. WWJD?). I've been at a few of his meetings where there were young men who have the hobby of bodybuilding as bodyguards and noticed over the years blackjacks sticking out of hip pockets. I guess the NIV translation commitee are some real thugs who are out to get Doc Pete. All men of high public profile have followings and some are not as I said, savory. I've been to meetings held by Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggart and noted people there I would not invite to a dogfight.

Dr. Ruckman has taught me some neat stuff, such as staying in the KJV for definitions. He showed me Isaiah 28 and Paul's spiritual things with spiritual things comparisons. It is unfortunate for any membership by me in the Baptist church that his method showed me the first formal water baptism in the Bible to be in Leviticus 8. everything I know about dispensationalism I did not learn from Stam, Darby, O'Hair; I learned it from Dr. Peter Sturges Ruckman. I thank him that I go to sleep tonight and every night knowing there are no contradictions in the Bible. The most trustworthy commnetaries to me are his, I did like Stam's THINGS THAT DIFFER. I learned everything I know about dispensationalism from him, in my opinion he hunts with the Baptist hounds and runs with the dispensational rabbits.

Friend or foe we all need to have a perspective on Dr. Ruckman: He is an 87 year old man. He is an elder. He was saved before my mother and father met. He is a man, like all men has faults. I've never met Dr. Ruckman, I hope someday I can.

If I can get by the bodybuilders.

So, would you like to discuss the bible version issue?

Grace and peace

Tony

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

JAT, my differences with Dr. Ruckman mostly are doctrinal. Doc Pete is a Baptist, I'm not. I came out of the Church Of Christ where any and all versions nearly are acceptable. I attended several Name-It Claim-It Pentecostal churches until I noticed a lot of people were naming and next to none claiming. There followed a two year limbo in a Bride Church where at least the preaching was good, I was mostly a knothole in a pew. A gentleman did a presentation on why the KJV was the inspired word of God FROM the word of God rather than manuscript evidence. I was using both a KJV and NASB. I kept the NASB as evidence, so to speak.

I attended one church that was dispensational and fundamentalist and from there I began reading Dr. Ruckman's books, I had nearly all of them. We call ourselves Grace Believers, Baptists call us Dry Cleaners. Of course, COC calls all of us damned, which is why I left them. You can't get a smile out of them at gunpoint. Rejecting the Calvinism and multi version original manuscript fraud of Stam, we had Richard Jordan in the church as a guest speaker. Jordan was booted out of the presidency of the Bereans when he made the statement the Bereans would use only the KJV, and Stam would not have that. Jordan attended Ruckman's school, BTW. I know Richard personally and consider him a brother and friend. I know Baptists I consider brothers and friends. I know a few unsaved Vietnam vets I consider brothers and friends. We can have brothers and friends in both worlds without making them gurus. That's part of your question here I think.

Dr. Ruckman has a following and like all followings there is a minority who are somewhat unsavory. Most the Christians I know who follow Dr. Ruckman do so as Christian gentlemen, recognize he has faults as we all do. Once in heaven me and Paul of Tarsus will have a fist fight over who is the least of Christians. So in naming Christians with faults, I am at the head of the list. This minority faction views Doc Pete as a guru, they emulate his dress, his speech("you moron", I prefer David Letterman's "mow-ron". In times of anger I have been noted to spout "knucklehead" a few times), they even emulate his prayer stance(on one knee with head in hands. I don't bow my head in prayer but look to heaven, as Jesus did in John 17. WWJD?). I've been at a few of his meetings where there were young men who have the hobby of bodybuilding as bodyguards and noticed over the years blackjacks sticking out of hip pockets. I guess the NIV translation commitee are some real thugs who are out to get Doc Pete. All men of high public profile have followings and some are not as I said, savory. I've been to meetings held by Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggart and noted people there I would not invite to a dogfight.

Dr. Ruckman has taught me some neat stuff, such as staying in the KJV for definitions. He showed me Isaiah 28 and Paul's spiritual things with spiritual things comparisons. It is unfortunate for any membership by me in the Baptist church that his method showed me the first formal water baptism in the Bible to be in Leviticus 8. everything I know about dispensationalism I did not learn from Stam, Darby, O'Hair; I learned it from Dr. Peter Sturges Ruckman. I thank him that I go to sleep tonight and every night knowing there are no contradictions in the Bible. The most trustworthy commnetaries to me are his, I did like Stam's THINGS THAT DIFFER. I learned everything I know about dispensationalism from him, in my opinion he hunts with the Baptist hounds and runs with the dispensational rabbits.

Friend or foe we all need to have a perspective on Dr. Ruckman: He is an 87 year old man. He is an elder. He was saved before my mother and father met. He is a man, like all men has faults. I've never met Dr. Ruckman, I hope someday I can.

If I can get by the bodybuilders.

So, would you like to discuss the bible version issue?

Grace and peace

Tony

Wow! Well thought out post. I agree with the way you look at Ruckman as well as the way we should look at all men. They are sinners with good qualities. I know you did not word it exactly that way and feel free to correct me if that mis-represents your thoughts.

As far as the Bible version issue is concerned, if you wish the send me a PM on here that is fine but if we have an open discussion on it many here will be mad by post #1. It is not worth upsetting everyone over it.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

Wow! Well thought out post. I agree with the way you look at Ruckman as well as the way we should look at all men. They are sinners with good qualities. I know you did not word it exactly that way and feel free to correct me if that mis-represents your thoughts.

As far as the Bible version issue is concerned, if you wish the send me a PM on here that is fine but if we have an open discussion on it many here will be mad by post #1. It is not worth upsetting everyone over it.

J, I would be glad to PM you, I am not versed(no pun intended)in this forum program however, if you could give me a heads up on PMing I'd be glad to. Whether or not we discuss in public or privately is up to you. I think that though neither side may move very far from our positions, it would be edifying to both to just get the other's perspective in maybe a non-combative atmosphere. I've got no axes to grind where you are the whetstone, nor no notches to add to any debate guns. If you trust the blood of Jesus Christ to get you to heaven, His Spirit dwells in you, if you know you are like me, undeserving of His great sacrifice but accept His love, if you accept HIS faith and righteousness, we have a common basis for friendship that cannot be broken.

My friend, I believe my message to you is accurate to the best of my knowledge, and you discerned exactly what I meant. We are all sinners saved by grace. Dr. Ruckman and I share a common background in that we are both "country boys", any agreement or disagreement I believe would be founded in that, I think by nature we would understand each other.

You are free to email me also, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Grace and peace

Tony

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

J, I would be glad to PM you, I am not versed(no pun intended)in this forum program however, if you could give me a heads up on PMing I'd be glad to. Whether or not we discuss in public or privately is up to you. I think that though neither side may move very far from our positions, it would be edifying to both to just get the other's perspective in maybe a non-combative atmosphere. I've got no axes to grind where you are the whetstone, nor no notches to add to any debate guns. If you trust the blood of Jesus Christ to get you to heaven, His Spirit dwells in you, if you know you are like me, undeserving of His great sacrifice but accept His love, if you accept HIS faith and righteousness, we have a common basis for friendship that cannot be broken.

My friend, I believe my message to you is accurate to the best of my knowledge, and you discerned exactly what I meant. We are all sinners saved by grace. Dr. Ruckman and I share a common background in that we are both "country boys", any agreement or disagreement I believe would be founded in that, I think by nature we would understand each other.

You are free to email me also, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Grace and peace

Tony

I tried to PM you bu5t it appears that there is not a PM service on here. I apologize.

[Diligent]

Just FYI, anyone who wants to receive messages from other forum users just needs to make their email address public in their profile. Click the User CP link at the top-left > Edit Options > Receive Email from Other Members.