[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by chette777

The Bible was inspired and perfect in its original form, and then it was preserved by God into a complete English Bible in 1611. therefore the KJV 1611 Authorized version is inspired, perfect and preserved to date.

You are the first person to truly answer my question. I do have another question for you though. Why did God use the 1611 as opposed to another Bible before or after the 1611. How do you know that was the one? Thanks for the answer though. It was a good one. Just in case you think or someone else thinks I am scoffing at chette when I say it is a good post I TRULY MEAN IT! I am not here to mock anyone and would appreciate the same in return.

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by stephanos

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2 Timothy 3:16 KJV)

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. (Psalms 12:6-7 KJV)

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. (Psalms 12:6 KJV)

And since the KJB is a purification of the Word's which God promised that He Himself would preserve, the KJB contains the same authority as the words that were originally put down by the holy men who spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2 Peter 1:21).

I understand the idea of preservation but was asking more how it was also inspired. Saying the originals were inspired and the KJV continued as the preserved Word makes since but some say (at least the way I was raised) that it was also inspired which does not make sense. I wanted to know if it is inspired and if it is how we know that.

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

Most KJBO people do not believe that the translators of 1611 were inspired men. That claim is broad-brushed onto all KJBOs by various folk on the other side of the debate, but is both untrue and dishonest. A few KJBOs might have argued for a 1604-1611 inspiration, which is not representative of all KJBOs. Also, a few KJBOs may have said they hold to this idea because they are told they believe this by the opposition.

Often these accusations come by twisting words. If a KJBO says he believes the KJB to be inspired, meaning that it presents what was originally inspired in the Autographs, his words may be taken and twisted to mean that he believes that the Bible was made by inspiration in 1611.

That's why accusations like, "Which edition of the KJV is the inspired one?" are really false accusations.

I see what you are saying and agree. I was raised to believe the KJV translators were inspired. I was looking more for an answer from those who believe it was inspired. I understand your idea of preservation and am not arguing it here. I just want to know why some believe it was inspired instead of just preserved. Follow what I am saying? I feel my post is worded poorly but I can't think how to word it any better. I appologize, my use of the English language is not always the best.

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by George

Just A Thought,

If you had searched out the word "Inspiration" on this Forum you would have seen that there are 139 "Threads" that had the word in it. If you had searched out the word "Inspiration" on this Forum you would have seen that there are 354 "Posts" that had the word in it.

However, a wonderful brother from India (Moses LemuelRaj), has set out the case for "Inspiration" as well as anything that I have read. The following "Thread" contains two of his essays on the subject:
http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...19&postcount=1

As to where this "belief" came from, I believe that most ordinary folks (from the time of its publication) have believed that the King James Bible is inspired. It takes a college education or studying college educated "skeptics" to believe otherwise. Not all King James Bible believers hold to this belief - I do.

You need to take a chill pill. Relax a bit. I wanted to chat about this in a thread instead of read threads from the past.

I have not got to read the link you posted yet. I will soon. My wife needs me to get moving but thanks for the link and agian I will be reading it soon.

[MC1171611]

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2 Pet. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Tim. 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Scripture is given by inspiration of God.

The Holy Ghost moved holy men to pen the words of prophecy (commonly referring to the entire canon of Scripture).

The Scriptures were available to Timothy, though what he had were noly copies or translations of the originals.

Inspiration is the spirit in a man giving him supernatural Understanding.

That's what the Bible says. I will cast no more pearls.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

I understand the idea of preservation but was asking more how it was also inspired. Saying the originals were inspired and the KJV continued as the preserved Word makes since but some say (at least the way I was raised) that it was also inspired which does not make sense. I wanted to know if it is inspired and if it is how we know that.

I think Bibleprotector gave you a good and brief answer to your question. Most brethren believe the KJB is inspired in that it is without errors when compared to what some believe are the original Greek and Hebrew texts (not the orignal penned texts, but the original wordings etc...).

Now there are some of us that believe the KJB has advanced revelation in it that is not found in the Greek or Hebrew. I am one of those. Not that these new insights give us something different, but they do give us little gems that put a smile on any Bible believer that are lead by the Holy Spirit to see them within the text.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by stephanos

Not that these new insights give us something different, but they do give us little gems that put a smile on any Bible believer that are lead by the Holy Spirit to see them within the text.

I go with you, brother!

[George]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

"You need to take a chill pill. Relax a bit. I wanted to chat about this in a thread instead of read threads from the past.

I have not got to read the link you posted yet. I will soon. My wife needs me to get moving but thanks for the link and agian I will be reading it soon. "

Just A Thought,

And you need to get some manners and stop being such a SMART ALEC!

Your "childish" and "juvenile" Post in 11/18/08:

"I would go with the NIV! ...not really, but I thought it may ruffle a few feathers. I think I would really choose the ASV. I tend to trust it more so far out of all the CT Bibles."

Your "cutesy" answer to Brandon (Diligent):

"I think you would be hard pressed to prove that the Bibles I quoted are inferior. (no reason to use this guy but I could not resist.)"

Your "Smart Alecky" answer to MC1171611

"I was not aware I was an apostate but thanks for pointing that out. I am glad to see you are throwing some punches at me after I did not insult or attack you in any way. Way to show a Christ-like attitude..."

Your "Smart Alecky" answer to brother Parrish:

"They let me remain here because I do not name call or try to stir up trouble. Besides, if I was not here to challenge points then who would you have to criticize?"

Your "Smarmy" answer to Winman:

"Thank you! I have never been called a "elitist intellectual" before. I guess there is a first time for everything."

Your "Smarty" answer to me:

"You need to take a chill pill. Relax a bit. I wanted to chat about this in a thread instead of read threads from the past."

You must "think" that you are CUTE or FUNNY! Let me tell you you're NOT! I used to be a "Smart Alec" - But that was way back in 1957 when I was a punk teenager; when I "thought" I knew everything! But, after I got saved, I WISED UP! When are you going to do the same? Hmmm?

Let's "cut to the quick" shall we? A review of your Threads & Posts demonstrates that you are full of "loaded" QUESTIONS - just like the Pharisees before you. {"Yea Hath God said"?}

You try to "control" the manner in which we respond to you. {"You need to take a chill pill. Relax a bit. I wanted to chat about this in a thread instead of read threads from the past."} You asked about the "inspiration" of the King James Bible. I gave you a link to two essays (too long to repeat) in answer to your inquiry. What difference would it make (if you were sincere) WHERE the answer came from? If you were honestly interested in the ANSWER? Hmmm?

Your Posts introduce DOUBT about the veracity of the words of God in the King James Bible.

Your Threads & Posts demonstrate that you are an insincere and disingenuous person, (the Western world is full of people like that - they are called "Sophists") and have no genuine interest in God's truth, but rather you continually call into QUESTION the veracity of the King James Bible.

You have shown a propensity for circular reasoning and a lack of spiritual discernment and understanding. And when someone points out the "error of your way" - you revert to your Cutesy & Smart Alecky answers (thinking you are "Clever").

I never commented on many of your Posts before because other brethren on this Forum were doing quite well proving you to be wrong, but for the record the following are some of the ridiculous claims you have made:

Some Quotes from - "JUST AT THOUGHT":

10/29/08
“God DID preserve His word but man has taken it out of context. God's words are true words but if I translate it or copie it I can mess it up. It may not be done on purpose but I am far from perfect! (Maybe this is the only thing you wil agree with me on[IMG]file:///G:/DOCUME%7E1/GEORGE%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]) I can mess it up while meaning well.”

IF "God DID preserve His word" - WHERE IS IT? According to you: NO TRANSLATION can EVER be the Holy word of God! Just exactly WHERE are God's WORDS? - NOT THE WORD! {The TWO are NOT THE SAME!}

10/29/08

“Even the older Bibles teach it is the poor being preserved. These were not money hungry people or people trying to "prevert" God's word. The Bishop's Bible (which the KJV1611 is a revision of) agree with this teaching...”

6 The wordes of God be wordes pure, as the siluer tryed in a furnace of earth: and purified seuen times. 7 [Wherfore] thou wylt kepe the godly, O God: thou wylt preserue euery one of them from this generation for euer. -The Bishop's Bible (1568)

6 The wordes of the Lorde are pure wordes, as the siluer, tried in a fornace of earth, fined seuen folde. 7 Thou wilt keepe them, O Lord: thou wilt preserue him from this generation for euer. -The Geneva Bible (1587)

6 The wordes of the LORDE are pure wordes: eue as ye syluer, which from earth is tried and purified vij. tymes in the fyre. 7 Kepe the therfore (o LORDE) and preserue vs fro this generacion for euer. -Miles Coverdale Bible (1535)

6 The spechis of the Lord ben chast spechis; siluer examynyd bi fier, preued fro erthe, purgid seuen fold. 7 Thou, Lord, schalt kepe vs; and thou `schalt kepe vs fro this generacioun with outen ende. -The Wycliffe Bible

”These men were translating God's word as closely as they could. It is odd that they all agree. Think about it the KJV really does agree with them to unless you take it out of context. God is preserving the poor in these verses not His word.”

They ALL AGREE? Are you serious? I have a nine year old grandson that has better reading comprehension than that! They don't ALL SAY THE SAME THING! How can it be that they ALL AGREE? (Circular Reasoning)

10/30/08

“If the KJV1611 is the pure Word of God as you are claiming it is. 100% perfect and EVERY WORD is perfect can we change any of the words in it and it still be perfect?”

This kind of QUESTION (always "Questioning") is pure "Sophistry". You don't want to really know the answer to your question (disingenuous). You are trying to sow DOUBT about the King James Bible. You have no more interest in the truth, or in edifying the brethren. You just think that you are CLEVER, coming up with "Just A (another) Thought"!

10/30/08

“Pardon my ignorance on this but I have never heard this before. I have heard the KJVO doctrine a long time but I have always been taught the KJV1611 is the perfect, inspired Word of God. You are saying this is not the case but rather the PCE is. Where does this belief stem from and how is this. Again, pardon my ignorance on this but I don't understand how Cambridge perfected the 1611.”

“Pardon my ignorance" - This kind of "feigned" humility is not sincere. Again, you don't really want to know the answer to your QUESTION (always "Questioning"), you just want to introduce ambiguity or confusion about the issue.

1/22/09

“I must kindly disagree with you. When I am on this forum I use the KJV only. I must use some other versions here to show you how it was interpreted by others. The KJV is not wrong but easily misunderstood here. I will not use any AT Bibles. I will only use TR versions.”

{That would be fine: IF you used them for CLARIFICATION (although I never do) and IF you didn’t use it for CHANGING God’s Holy words – which you do!}

Psa 12:6 The wordes of the Lorde are pure wordes, as the siluer, tried in a fornace of earth, fined seuen folde.
Psa 12:7 Thou wilt keepe them, O Lord: thou wilt preserue him from this generation for euer. – Geneva {WHO or WHAT is THEM? WHO is HIM?}

Psa 12:6 The wordes of God be wordes pure, as the siluer tryed in a furnace of earth: and purified seuen times.
Psa 12:7 [Wherfore] thou wylt kepe the godly, O God: thou wylt preserue euery one of them from this generation for euer. –Bishops {WHERE did the “GODLY” come from?}

”Both of these say the same thing as thier meaning, so does the KJV. It is simply miss read do to the working that the translators chose.”

God Bless!”

Do the two Bible versions above say the SAME THING? I trow NOT!

What does the Holy Bible say?
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

{Unless you intend to CHANGE the Holy words of God – There is NO WAY that you can say that :”Both of these say the same thing as thier meaning, so does the KJV. It is simply miss read do (due) to the working that the translators chose.” The two Translations DO NOT SAY THE SAME THING!}

Perhaps you meant to say: “Both of these say the same thing as (to) thier (their) meaning, so does the KJV. It is simply miss read do (due) to the working (wording) that the translators chose.” Can you see how the “right” words in a statement can help clarify the meaning? Just exactly like the King James Bible Translators (48-54 Men – NOT a single individual or a handful) helped clarify the “confusion” of the words used in the prior English translations?

1/22/09

“I think you would be hard pressed to prove that the Bibles I quoted are inferior. (no reason to use this guy but I could not resist.)”

"no reason to use this guy" Then why go ahead and use it? Hmmm? Smart Alec's can't be choosy - if people choose to ignore or disregard their "Cutesy" comments, or if we refuse to take you seriously.

1/23/09

“I have yet to see one post that proves the KJV is superior to the Geneva or any other Bible of that time period. I am certainly no critic to the KJV. It is an outstanding Bible but I see no true argument against that which I posted. The KJV agrees with the Geneva and Bishops. It is easily misunderstood. That was my point. Hammer it if you like but you have little proof on this and I have other translation taken from the same text to back me up”.

“I have yet to see one post that proves the KJV is superior to the Geneva or any other Bible of that time period." That's simply because you have either not taken the time to search out the issue (on this Forum & elsewhere). Or you refuse to accept what has been written.

"I am certainly no critic to the KJV." You certainly are! Your Threads & Posts call into question the veracity of the King James Bible at every turn!

1/23/09
“Keep in mind that most KJVOs are hardcore individuals and mean well. There is, however, usually no way of changing thier minds or expecting a straight answer sometimes. If they have a good answer they are swift to give it. If they do not have a good answer they are gruff and sometimes very rude. They are good people though. They can have a love for God and feel they are doing His service by fighting those who disagree with them so gruffly.”

FLATTERY will get you nowhere on this Forum, especially when (at every opportunity) you disparage our HOLY BIBLE!

Your "Moniker" is very "appropriate" - "JUST A THOUGHT", since you have NO FINAL AUTHORITY other than your own personal "THOUGHTS" (opinions)! On second "THOUGHT" I think you should CHANGE it to: "Just A BUNCH of Thoughts" - I think that would be far more "appropriate".

You have NO FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice, and as such, you are going to be in opposition on many issues to those of us who are genuine Bible (The Bible = A BOOK that you can hold in your hands) believers.

You are NOT here to edify the brethren, or to seek edification yourself. Your Threads & Posts have demonstrated (over & over again) that you are only interested in spreading doubt, discord, and confusion amongst the brethren on this Forum.

Your reasons for being here are both childish and selfish, which shows that you are just another "immature Christian" trying to prove that you "know something" that we don't.

I've raised seven children to adulthood, and at present have 17 grandchildren and 3 great-grandchildren. I know how to deal with smart alecky children (I've had lots of practice). And that is you don't give them an inch!

You may rest assured that I won't give you an inch either - for "Christians" that are insincere and disingenuous do not deserve our hospitality. They deserve to be dealt with as disobedient and disrespectful children!

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by George

Just A Thought,

And you need to get some manners and stop being such a SMART ALEC!

Your "childish" and "juvenile" Post in 11/18/08:
Your "cutesy" answer to Brandon (Diligent):
Your "Smart Alecky" answer to MC1171611
Your "Smart Alecky" answer to brother Parrish:
Your "Smarmy" answer to Winman:
Your "Smarty" answer to me:
You must "think" that you are CUTE or FUNNY! Let me tell you you're NOT! I used to be a "Smart Alec" - But that was way back in 1957 when I was a punk teenager; when I "thought" I knew everything! But, after I got saved, I WISED UP! When are you going to do the same? Hmmm?

Let's "cut to the quick" shall we? A review of your Threads & Posts demonstrates that you are full of "loaded" QUESTIONS - just like the Pharisees before you. {"Yea Hath God said"?}

You try to "control" the manner in which we respond to you. {"You need to take a chill pill. Relax a bit. I wanted to chat about this in a thread instead of read threads from the past."} You asked about the "inspiration" of the King James Bible. I gave you a link to two essays (too long to repeat) in answer to your inquiry. What difference would it make (if you were sincere) WHERE the answer came from? If you were honestly interested in the ANSWER? Hmmm?

Your Posts introduce DOUBT about the veracity of the words of God in the King James Bible.

Your Threads & Posts demonstrate that you are an insincere and disingenuous person, (the Western world is full of people like that - they are called "Sophists") and have no genuine interest in God's truth, but rather you continually call into QUESTION the veracity of the King James Bible.

You have shown a propensity for circular reasoning and a lack of spiritual discernment and understanding. And when someone points out the "error of your way" - you revert to your Cutesy & Smart Alecky answers (thinking you are "Clever").

I never commented on many of your Posts before because other brethren on this Forum were doing quite well proving you to be wrong, but for the record the following are some of the ridiculous claims you have made:

Some Quotes from - "JUST AT THOUGHT":

10/29/08
“God DID preserve His word but man has taken it out of context. God's words are true words but if I translate it or copie it I can mess it up. It may not be done on purpose but I am far from perfect! (Maybe this is the only thing you wil agree with me on[IMG]file:///G:/DOCUME%7E1/GEORGE%7E1/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]) I can mess it up while meaning well.”

IF "God DID preserve His word" - WHERE IS IT? According to you: NO TRANSLATION can EVER be the Holy word of God! Just exactly WHERE are God's WORDS? - NOT THE WORD! {The TWO are NOT THE SAME!}

10/29/08
They ALL AGREE? Are you serious? I have a nine year old grandson that has better reading comprehension than that! They don't ALL SAY THE SAME THING! How can it be that they ALL AGREE? (Circular Reasoning)

10/30/08
This kind of QUESTION (always "Questioning") is pure "Sophistry". You don't want to really know the answer to your question (disingenuous). You are trying to sow DOUBT about the King James Bible. You have no more interest in the truth, or in edifying the brethren. You just think that you are CLEVER, coming up with "Just A (another) Thought"!

10/30/08
“Pardon my ignorance" - This kind of "feigned" humility is not sincere. Again, you don't really want to know the answer to your QUESTION (always "Questioning"), you just want to introduce ambiguity or confusion about the issue.

1/22/09
{That would be fine: IF you used them for CLARIFICATION (although I never do) and IF you didn’t use it for CHANGING God’s Holy words – which you do!}

Psa 12:6 The wordes of the Lorde are pure wordes, as the siluer, tried in a fornace of earth, fined seuen folde.
Psa 12:7 Thou wilt keepe them, O Lord: thou wilt preserue him from this generation for euer. – Geneva {WHO or WHAT is THEM? WHO is HIM?}

Psa 12:6 The wordes of God be wordes pure, as the siluer tryed in a furnace of earth: and purified seuen times.
Psa 12:7 [Wherfore] thou wylt kepe the godly, O God: thou wylt preserue euery one of them from this generation for euer. –Bishops {WHERE did the “GODLY” come from?}
Do the two Bible versions above say the SAME THING? I trow NOT!

What does the Holy Bible say?
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

{Unless you intend to CHANGE the Holy words of God – There is NO WAY that you can say that :”Both of these say the same thing as thier meaning, so does the KJV. It is simply miss read do (due) to the working that the translators chose.” The two Translations DO NOT SAY THE SAME THING!}

Perhaps you meant to say: “Both of these say the same thing as (to) thier (their) meaning, so does the KJV. It is simply miss read do (due) to the working (wording) that the translators chose.” Can you see how the “right” words in a statement can help clarify the meaning? Just exactly like the King James Bible Translators (48-54 Men – NOT a single individual or a handful) helped clarify the “confusion” of the words used in the prior English translations?

1/22/09
"no reason to use this guy" Then why go ahead and use it? Hmmm? Smart Alec's can't be choosy - if people choose to ignore or disregard their "Cutesy" comments, or if we refuse to take you seriously.

1/23/09
“I have yet to see one post that proves the KJV is superior to the Geneva or any other Bible of that time period." That's simply because you have either not taken the time to search out the issue (on this Forum & elsewhere). Or you refuse to accept what has been written.

"I am certainly no critic to the KJV." You certainly are! Your Threads & Posts call into question the veracity of the King James Bible at every turn!

1/23/09
“Keep in mind that most KJVOs are hardcore individuals and mean well. There is, however, usually no way of changing thier minds or expecting a straight answer sometimes. If they have a good answer they are swift to give it. If they do not have a good answer they are gruff and sometimes very rude. They are good people though. They can have a love for God and feel they are doing His service by fighting those who disagree with them so gruffly.”

FLATTERY will get you nowhere on this Forum, especially when (at every opportunity) you disparage our HOLY BIBLE!

Your "Moniker" is very "appropriate" - "JUST A THOUGHT", since you have NO FINAL AUTHORITY other than your own personal "THOUGHTS" (opinions)! On second "THOUGHT" I think you should CHANGE it to: "Just A BUNCH of Thoughts" - I think that would be far more "appropriate".

You have NO FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters of faith and practice, and as such, you are going to be in opposition on many issues to those of us who are genuine Bible (The Bible = A BOOK that you can hold in your hands) believers.

You are NOT here to edify the brethren, or to seek edification yourself. Your Threads & Posts have demonstrated (over & over again) that you are only interested in spreading doubt, discord, and confusion amongst the brethren on this Forum.

Your reasons for being here are both childish and selfish, which shows that you are just another "immature Christian" trying to prove that you "know something" that we don't.

I've raised seven children to adulthood, and at present have 17 grandchildren and 3 great-grandchildren. I know how to deal with smart alecky children (I've had lots of practice). And that is you don't give them an inch!

You may rest assured that I won't give you an inch either - for "Christians" that are insincere and disingenuous do not deserve our hospitality. They deserve to be dealt with as disobedient and disrespectful children!

Wow! You have some serious issues. I guess "smart alec" me has really ticked you off but what can I say? I guess I am to "childish" to be a grown up like yourself. I am only here to cast doubt with my "loaded" questions...

Make sure you stay on me....O ya, and don't give me an inch either!

See...I can be a smart alec however most of which you are accusing me off is far from it. You need to relax and realize not every "CBC" is out to get you or anyone else for this forum. You are crying wolf over someone who is truly trying to figure some things out. If I do not understand it then I have evey right to ask. Also, I prefer to chat than read everyones posts from the past. I read plenty of web pages and books on the issue, sometimes I just prefer to have a conversation.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

Wow! You have some serious issues. I guess "smart alec" me has really ticked you off but what can I say? I guess I am to "childish" to be a grown up like yourself. I am only here to cast doubt with my "loaded" questions...

Make sure you stay on me....O ya, and don't give me an inch either!

See...I can be a smart alec however most of which you are accusing me off is far from it. You need to relax and realize not every "CBC" is out to get you or anyone else for this forum. You are crying wolf over someone who is truly trying to figure some things out. If I do not understand it then I have evey right to ask. Also, I prefer to chat than read everyones posts from the past. I read plenty of web pages and books on the issue, sometimes I just prefer to have a conversation.

I don't think you've read a single book on the issue.

Oh and it sure is revealing that you cannot gracefully take criticism from your elder who has likely forgotten more than you know.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen