Originally Posted by atlas

Tandi,


Here is some very good information on the LXX. Go watch it and you'll learn something.


The LXX - Once Upon A Time by Dr. Sam Gipp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ER5FXGL54Q


Atlas

Hi Atlas, all.........

I watched it. It was good. I have a couple of Dr. Gipp's books and have been on his mailing list for years. Very helpful, although I am discouraged right now about my friend. Steve is probably right. My only hope is that the Word of God will penetrate his defenses somehow. He is reading his dad's KJV at my request, but his intellect is full of higher criticism, source criticism, form criticism, etc., and my lack of scholarship, inability to read Hebrew, etc. gives me no room to speak in his view. Do you think Floyd Nolen Jones would make a good impression on him? His resume looks impressive.

Floyd Nolen Jones, ThD., PhD

Following a 14 year professional career during which he held varying positions of responsibility as Paleontologist, Geophysicist, District Geophysicist, Geophysical Manager, and Regional Geophysicist with Texaco and Tenneco respectively, Dr. Floyd Nolen Jones was selected to attend Division Manager School shortly before resigning from his scientific vocation in 1974 to pursue Biblical studies.

Having attained a Ph.D. as well as a Th.D., Dr. Jones has garnered majors in the disciplines of Geology, Chemistry, Mathematics, Theology, and Education from six institutions of higher learning. A magna cum laude graduate and an ex-evolutionist, he also possesses a minor in Physics and is an ordained Minister (SBC).

Dr. Jones twice served as adjunct Professor at Continental Bible College in Brussels, Belgium. Having authored a definitive work on bible chronology, he has also written several books on textual criticism in defense of the traditional biblical text. He is currently engaged in ongoing Biblical research and the teaching of God's infallible Word. He and his wife, as well as his children and grandchildren, reside in Texas.

I am reading his Septuagint article now. Nice that his books are available as pdf downloads.

Prayer requested for my friend, and for me not to get too discouraged. This friend would make a great apologist for the truth if he comes around. There is just too much apostasy going on in this generation because of confusion about the Bible. The Atheist authors (Dawkins, Shermer, etc.) are having a field day stealing the best and brightest.

Shalom,

Tandi

[atlas]

Tandi,

Anything by Floyd Nolen Jones is great. I have one or two of his books in PDF. Email me and I'll email them to you. You can email me from the forum.


Atlas

Originally Posted by atlas

Tandi,

Anything by Floyd Nolen Jones is great. I have one or two of his books in PDF. Email me and I'll email them to you. You can email me from the forum.


Atlas

Thank you, Atlas. I found them online thanks to another thread post by Steven A.

Here is the link to the Septuagint and other great articles....actually books in some cases. I have lots to read now that will help me understand these issues and develop posts of my own. I am quite impressed with Jones so far.

http://www.christianmissionconnectio...dy_topics.html

Shalom,

Tandi

[chette777]

I can verify TMonk's statement. only the books of the Jewish law were translated into Greek under Poltemy Phildelphia? (I think that name is correct). He was only interested in the Law not the history of Israel. He wanted it inthe language of that day Greek to bring into their library of Alexandria for the purpose of bringing together all the good parts of teachings from the world religions for the purpose of making one true religion for all. it developed into the Roman Catholic Church who continued to morph different religious practices into one for the practices of the RC church. i.e. rosary beeads from eastern mystic prayer beeds, mother son worship found throughout Asia and Eurpoe in to MArty and Jesus worship, different gods were replaced with Saints. so instead of the god of harvest you have Saint Labrador, God of protection for travelers you have Saint Christopher and so forth. the Day of the Dad was made All Saints Day

What is known today as the LXX never existed before 250AD

[tonybones2112]

Tandi, I researched the LXX and found the assertion that there is NO LXX prior to 300 AD to be true. There are some BC fragments of Isaiah in Greek but Greek copies of the LXX, if it existed, should have been all over the Roman Empire and there to be many extant copies prior to 300 AD. Many of the Old Latin OT manuscripts that contain the words of God were "sazmizdat", that is, underground copies not approved by the powers that be. Surely copies of an alleged legitimate version as the LXX should have survived also.

My research indoicates Origen to be the author of what is today known as the LXX.

Grace and peace.

Tony Bones

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by chette777

I can verify TMonk's statement. only the books of the Jewish law were translated into Greek under Poltemy Phildelphia? (I think that name is correct). He was only interested in the Law not the history of Israel. He wanted it inthe language of that day Greek to bring into their library of Alexandria for the purpose of bringing together all the good parts of teachings from the world religions for the purpose of making one true religion for all. it developed into the Roman Catholic Church who continued to morph different religious practices into one for the practices of the RC church. i.e. rosary beeads from eastern mystic prayer beeds, mother son worship found throughout Asia and Eurpoe in to MArty and Jesus worship, different gods were replaced with Saints. so instead of the god of harvest you have Saint Labrador, God of protection for travelers you have Saint Christopher and so forth. the Day of the Dad was made All Saints Day

What is known today as the LXX never existed before 250AD

Actually I think mother son worship goes back further to Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz in Babylon.

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Tandi, I researched the LXX and found the assertion that there is NO LXX prior to 300 AD to be true. There are some BC fragments of Isaiah in Greek but Greek copies of the LXX, if it existed, should have been all over the Roman Empire and there to be many extant copies prior to 300 AD. Many of the Old Latin OT manuscripts that contain the words of God were "sazmizdat", that is, underground copies not approved by the powers that be. Surely copies of an alleged legitimate version as the LXX should have survived also.

My research indoicates Origen to be the author of what is today known as the LXX.

Grace and peace.

Tony Bones

Yeah, the hexapla iirc.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Tandi, I researched the LXX and found the assertion that there is NO LXX prior to 300 AD to be true. There are some BC fragments of Isaiah in Greek but Greek copies of the LXX, if it existed, should have been all over the Roman Empire and there to be many extant copies prior to 300 AD. Many of the Old Latin OT manuscripts that contain the words of God were "sazmizdat", that is, underground copies not approved by the powers that be. Surely copies of an alleged legitimate version as the LXX should have survived also.

My research indoicates Origen to be the author of what is today known as the LXX.

Grace and peace.

Tony Bones

Thank you Tony. This is an especially helpful comment as I deal with my unbelieving scholarly friend. I welcome additional high-powered ammunition from all.....yet I am beginning to realize that skeptics do not want to be convinced, having departed from the faith to embrace atheism. Yet I continue to hope something will be said to turn the prodigal back to the LORD. At least he agreed to read the KJV all the way through. The Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword....!!

My background (and his) is not of the Unconditional Eternal Security persuasion. Yet now I am hoping I have been wrong about that. Why would the LORD continue to impress upon me to continue praying for him? But do backslidden apostates who become outspoken atheists go to Heaven?? I hold onto the Scripture in Proverbs about the righteous falling seven times and getting up again. This friend has only fallen into unbelief three times I think so far. He has been in and out of atheism before and found it "too dark." I cannot comprehend his ability to go from one extreme to another. When he is serving the LORD, he is 200% with dedication. His brain is like a vast theological library......I think the problem is he has too many volumes in the stacks that need to be sorted into the heresy category instead of being accepted and integrated into the rest of his thinking. Then again, he has stated in the past that his behavior tends to dictate his theology rather than his theology dictate his behavior. I am still trying to figure him out. Not sure he has figured himself out.

Continued prayer requested. Do any of you know of a Christian who has converted to Atheism who has re-converted to true, Biblical faith and gone on to walk in faithfulness? Those kinds of testimonies would be an encouragement right about now.

Shalom,

Tandi

[tonybones2112]

[QUOTE=Tandi;15980]Thank you Tony. This is an especially helpful comment as I deal with my unbelieving scholarly friend. I welcome additional high-powered ammunition from all.....yet I am beginning to realize that skeptics do not want to be convinced, having departed from the faith to embrace atheism. Yet I continue to hope something will be said to turn the prodigal back to the LORD. At least he agreed to read the KJV all the way through. The Word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword....!!

My background (and his) is not of the Unconditional Eternal Security
persuasion.

***********************

I was raised in the Church Of Christ, spent the first 30 years of my life in it and didn't have any security about anything Tandi.

I did not join this forum to preach the dispensational mystery of the Body Of Christ as revealed to Paul, but I feel compelled however to show you a few things will open your eyes. My browser crashes after a certain time when I check into this forum, I'm going to tell you straight up and will give you the Scripture, solidly, for everything I say if you desire it later. Here is where war breaks out. I am known as a "hyperdispensationalist" by fundamental Baptists and there are many here. I don't mean for war to break out, I believe the same things the Baptists do, except water baptism is just what it is: The first step in consecrating a Jewish priest.

I take it you are Jewish and of the Messianic persuasion, correct me if I am wrong. I follow Paul's command to RIGHTLY divide the Scriptures, and it tells me this: There are no Jews or Gentiles in the Body Of Christ. We are of His flesh and bone. Paul gives the three races of man and it's not black, white, or Oriental. It's Jew, Gentile, and Church of God, NOW. This Body is Jew and Gentile after the flesh and what we ONCE were, not spiritually. The Body began at Calvary, was made known as a Jewish Body through Acts 2. When the nation of Israel rejected Christ in Acts 7 with the murder of Stephen, Paul, who was Christ's worst enemy and a Pharisee of the Pharisees, was called by Christ. This Jewish-Gentile Body was not revealed and was a secret kept from before the foundation of creation, that Jews and Gentiles would be in one Body. Peter, James, and John were given the dispensation of the Messianic Church to Israel, Paul then grafted the Jew-Gentile Body to it. Until Paul was called, Jesus's ministry was to Isarel ALONE(Rom.15.8). Until Calvary, I, a Gentile, was LEFT OUT. The Messianic gospel failed because Israel rejected Christ and killed Stephen, Paul was given the new Body that was kept hidden from before Genesis 1:1. It's not something to declare theological war over, but a simple mystery now revealed: Jews and Gentiles would be together in ONE Body, Jesus Christ, NOT Israel. That is Paul's mystery. Look at it as a great parenthesis that begins at Romans and ends at Philemon. The Messianic Body of Acts 2 was entered through water baptism, to make Israel a "kingdom of priests", then these "priests" were annointed, not with oil as in the OT, but the Holy Ghost. This dispensation, this giving of God's grace, of the Jewish-Gentile Body, is what goes to be with Christ in what is called the Rapture, then the Messianic program begins again. Hebrews through Revelation is primarily Tribulation doctrine.

We have in the present body of Christ eternal security without conditions. What is eternal has NO conditions. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption when He comes for us. Read Romans 8 and tell me what can separate Tandi from the love of Christ? Does he throw parts of His Body into eternal hell? We have what is called the Sure Mercies Of David.

You know, this is a whole lot for you to swallow and is volatile information. Dividing the word of truth is merely sorting it out, where are you on the timeline. I have Scripture for every assertion I have made. So do the Jehovah's Witnesses for theirs, but does the Spirit Of God bear witness to what they say? I can show you Scripture from the OT to try to back up the existence of Santa Clause. Is it true? Is what I have said here true? I'll give you the Scripture, be fully pursuaded in your own mind.

I'm going to say something shocking in a KJV Only forum: The version battle is a small skirmish in a larger war, this war began in Genesis 3 when Eve disbelieved the words of God. I believe the story of Noah but it is not TO me but written FOR me. I don't have to build a boat, just get into the Body Of Christ. I don't have to repent and be baptized as in Acts 2, I am not a Jewish convert from every nation. I am a Gentile OUTSIDE the commonwealth of Israel. Many people "stand" on the KJV, it's easier to stomp into the ground while "standing" on it. Don;t thump your bible, read it, but do you believe what you read("...believest thou what you read?"...)? Eve didn't. That's why we are where we are today. And Jesus Christ is the Ark to escape the curse.

Tandi, I say this to you as a brother and not a combatant: If Tandi is saved by grace through faith yet you believe you can lose so great a salvation, go to Romans 8 and tell me what can separate Tandi from the love of Christ?

His bessings and grace be upon you from this day forth. I await to hear from you.

Grace and Peace

Tony

[MC1171611]

Tonybones,

I'm not sure where you come off as a "hyper," other than perhaps the baptism issue. I firmly believe that Baptism should be mandatory in obedience as a public display of testimony. Baptism has nothing to do whatsoever with membership in the Body of Christ, and I don't personally believe that being baptized should immediately add an individual to the local Church either. Basically it's a testimony: nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the rest, the only place where you would be called a Hyperdispensationalist would be a forum like Online Baptist or an individual like David Cloud, who couldn't Rightly Divide his way out of a wet paper bag (I just love saying that! ).

Most of us are Pauline, Acts 2 Dispensationalists. Of course Jesus called out His church at the beginning of His earthly ministry, but they weren't a part of the Body of Christ until Acts 2, and Salvation was not readily available to the Gentiles until the stoning of Stephen (making the Ethiopian Eunuch the first person to be "saved" by Grace through Faith, a la Eph. 2:8-9).

You're probably more at home here than you first suspected.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

Tonybones,

I'm not sure where you come off as a "hyper," other than perhaps the baptism issue. I firmly believe that Baptism should be mandatory in obedience as a public display of testimony. Baptism has nothing to do whatsoever with membership in the Body of Christ, and I don't personally believe that being baptized should immediately add an individual to the local Church either. Basically it's a testimony: nothing more, nothing less.

As far as the rest, the only place where you would be called a Hyperdispensationalist would be a forum like Online Baptist or an individual like David Cloud, who couldn't Rightly Divide his way out of a wet paper bag (I just love saying that! ).

Most of us are Pauline, Acts 2 Dispensationalists. Of course Jesus called out His church at the beginning of His earthly ministry, but they weren't a part of the Body of Christ until Acts 2, and Salvation was not readily available to the Gentiles until the stoning of Stephen (making the Ethiopian Eunuch the first person to be "saved" by Grace through Faith, a la Eph. 2:8-9).

You're probably more at home here than you first suspected.

MC, all I have to say to you is thank you. Do you know I am tired of fighting?

I'm tired, not of the war, not of being a soldier as Paul commands ua to be, I'm tired of fighting with my brethren and my sisteren(original greek, that one. I'm tired of being on the front line and being told I belt my sword on the wrong hip and war in the ranks breaking out. I don't want war with my own troops, I want to guide and help Tandi. And anyone else. I ain't put 25 years of study into what I've studied and it is massive, for me.

I've never read Darby and only poems and song lyrics by JC O'Hair. I read enough Stam to see he was like John R. Rice, a lightyear wide and half an inch deep doctrinally. I believe we must be "born again", yes, it's in Paul's letters, the new creature., the new man. I'm not a Calvinist as Stam, he brought that into his work from his Dutch Reform background. And I do NOT believe ONLY the original manuscripts were given by inspiration and I got to search through 215 "versions" of the bible to cherry-pick doctrine as the Jesuits want us to.

God love Dr. Ruckman, you won't find me anywhere in his "Why I Am Not A Hyperdispennsationalist". I'm castout even among the dispensationalists. They are divided into Mid-Acts, Early-Acts, Northcentral Acts, Southewestern Acts; where did the "body" begin?

At Calvary, it was revealed by Paul. Something can be there but not revealed. As Bilbo to Gollum in the The Hobbit: What have I got in my pocket? Twixt you and me, I don't care where or when the Body began, only that He let you and me in.

MC, I hope water baptism is our only contention we ever have. I hope you will help me make every thought captive for Christ, and that I can be a help to you in the same manner. Baptism is a statement of faith to you, it's the first step in consecrating a Levite priest to me. Water baptism is sight and not faith to me. The same method we use(Isaiah 28) to learn all the rest of His truth is the method I used to determine water baptism is the ritual consecration of a Levite, John baptised to make a "kingdom of priests".

In the flesh I look like a deserter from the Confederate Army, I am a dying breed in America: I'm a gun-owning-tobacco using-heterosexual. I am part Shawnee Indian and before I cut 10 inches from it I could sit on my hair. The bikers in the street ask me, why do you look like "us" but act like ":them"? Because you ain't supposed to look at me, you're supposed to look at the words in this Book.

I have 4 heroes among men: the Apostle Paul, my pastor Bill Jennings, Pastor Richard Jordan and Arthur Blessit. Jordan was thrown out of the Bereans for making the KJV the only bible they were to use, Blessit was stood up in front of firing squads for Christ carrying that wooden cross 36,000 miles. That's humbling, all I ever did was take a Buck knife from a biker who was gonna stab me. I just reached out and flick!, took it from his hand.

Enough about me. I must decrease, He must increase.

If I haven;t scared you to death by now, let's stand in rank together. Only thing is I don;t drop when they shout "incoming..." My armor is better than Kevlar.

I'll leave you with my favorite bible verse: If we had hope of Christ in this life alone we would be, of all men, most miserable.

Grac4e and peace to you this day and all days, MC.

Tony "Bones" Howard