[Brother Tim]

When the Scripture says, "husband of one wife" (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6), how is it that some read this as "husband of one wife at a time"?

This is not a standard set for all believers, but for those who will be in leadership positions within the local church. The two chapters shown above clearly indicate that a much higher standard is set for the bishop (pastor) of a church.

[scott]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

Bro. Scott, I must say I appreciate your spirit in the matter. It's a tough topic to discuss, and in the amount of times I've talked about it with different people, almost every time someone winds up making pointed, derogatory comments about Doc or someone else (usually Doc; they hate his guts) in the intent to make us "Ruckmanites" get hot under the collar and retaliate.

Thank you for your attitude about this.

Thank you for your comments, Brother...I want to reiterate that I enjoy Dr. Ruckmans Bible studies and knowledge....I enjoy listening to him, I've spent several hours doing so, and I can honestly say that I learn, laugh and cry listening [sometimes all at the same time]....and because I don't want to start a fire here, I'll end with that thought, but my original post on this thread shares my feelings about the office of "pastor", and I feel there is a difference between pastor, preacher, teacher and evangelist.....God bless....Scott

[MC1171611]

Vendetta Ride: I don't want to discuss you personally; I simply want to make a point.

You being divorced, have how many wives?

Are you therefore the husband of one wife?

Thank you sir.

[Here Am I]

So, then does 'husband of one wife' mean the bishop (pastor) could not remarry if he were widowed?

Or if he did remarry, he'd have to give up his church?

I'm not being facetious, really, just wondering about the semantics being used...and on what this 'doctrine' is based upon...

[Brother Tim]

Good question and answered both by Scripture and marital vows:

1 Corinthians 7:39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

and I believe that the reverse would apply here

and the vow:
"till death do us part" (or similar words)

In order to sort this whole mess out, I believe we need to understand what marriage is and what divorce is. The following is adapted from an article I wrote (adapted so that it didn't sound so "teachy" since I am a woman and most of you guys are men).

It is no secret that marriage is under threat in society today. Well meaning Christians try to fight for godly marriage without really knowing what marriage is. So I am going to concentrate on what I believe the Biblical definition of marriage is and not some man made cultural rules.

Let’s begin with the book of Genesis, the book of beginnings. Most of the time, when a thing is first mentioned in the Bible, it indicates the meaning. This is commonly called the “law of first mention”. Genesis 2:24 gives us our definition, and it is the first mention of marriage. “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” The Biblical definition of marriage is when flesh joins flesh. Marriage is consummation, not a wedding ceremony.

Another proof text for the Bible definition of marriage being sexual relations is found in 1 Corinthians 6:15-16. “Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. What? Know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? For two, saith he, shall be one flesh.”

There are several mentions of marriage suppers or feasts in the Bible, but never the mention of a wedding ceremony. That’s because a ceremony does not equal marriage. Consummation equals marriage. An example of this is in Genesis 38:8 where it says “And Judah said unto Onan, go in unto thy brother’s wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.” Onan already had a wife, but Judah was commanding Onan to have sexual relations with Tamar to produce an heir as was commanded by Jewish law. Instead of telling Judah to “have sexual relations” with Tamar, he told him to “marry” her, which means the same thing. Judah and Tamar did not have a wedding ceremony, they had what would be seen today as “a one night stand”. Yet God considered this as marriage.

In Genesis 24 we read about the marriage of Isaac and Rebekah. They did not have a wedding ceremony, they simply consummated and that was marriage. “And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mothers death.”

Many young people in our society have had several marriages although they have never had a wedding ceremony. They have also had several divorces although they never had a ceremony, for divorce is when flesh leaves flesh. They consummated, had flesh join flesh, and then tore it apart in divorce by going on to another person.

In the Old Testament, God had a divorce. He "put away" Israel.

I believe this needs to be understood before discussing the topic of divorce etc.

[Brother Tim]

In the Old Testament, God had a divorce. He "put away" Israel.

Where? Yes, He separated Himself from her uncleanness, but there was no divorce.

Isaiah 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

The LORD was asking for proof a a divorce, which they could not produce.

Jeremiah 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.

Jeremiah 4:1 If thou wilt return, O Israel, saith the LORD, return unto me: and if thou wilt put away thine abominations out of my sight, then shalt thou not remove.

Ezekiel 43:9 Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever.

Hosea 2

The LORD is seeking reconciliation, which is what we should counsel as much as is earthly possible, and not divorce.

I agree that in most instances nobody should be counseled to get a divorce!

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by aussiemama

I agree that in most instances nobody should be counseled to get a divorce!

I'll go so far as to say that divorce should never be counseled at all. While sometimes it's the only possible outcome to a situation, I would never suggest that to a couple.

I've only been married a little over six months, so I'm not really the one to lecture on the subject (though she and I have known each other for 2 1/2 years and still haven't had a fight ), yet I think it's important to understand what aussiemama pointed out. Just like on the Inspiration topic I started: if you begin with a faulty definition, you'll end up with faulty doctrine. The Biblical meaning of a word, phrase or principle must be ascertained before one can truly and honestly approach the topic.

By God's definition, marriage is obviously a joining of flesh, or sexual intercourse (the "one flesh" statement should make it clear to anyone who has participated in such actions). Added to that is God's judgment of the heart: "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge." God judges actions based on the intentions of the heart (that's not to say that a sinner gets off because he was well-intentioned). In Bible times, a man took a woman as his wife, and it became official by their consummation. Our culture has changed so the wedding ceremony is regarded as the "marriage," but in God's eyes, sexual congress is, in fact, the deciding factor in a marriage.

In reality, the only difference between the two clauses in Hebrews 13:4 (see above) is the intentions of the participants: the married folks intend to be together for the rest of their lives, while the other two people are intentionally sleeping together without the intention of commitment.

"...man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

[scott]

Originally Posted by aussiemama

Many young people in our society have had several marriages although they have never had a wedding ceremony. They have also had several divorces although they never had a ceremony, for divorce is when flesh leaves flesh. They consummated, had flesh join flesh, and then tore it apart in divorce by going on to another person.

In the Old Testament, God had a divorce. He "put away" Israel.

I believe this needs to be understood before discussing the topic of divorce etc.

From the Websters 1828 dictionary:
FORNICA'TION, n. L. fornicatio.

1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.

Just my opinion, but we're kind of getting off topic. According to your definition, the term fornication, used in the KJV 32 times, would be unnecessary, because, according to your definition, they are officially married, so they couldn't commit fornication....and how could anyone commit adultery according to your definition because now they are officially married again [and divorced]??