Originally Posted by Diligent

I'm voting on the principle that Obama is the most unqualified and dangerous person to ever get close to the job. Even if McCain wins and turns out to be worse than I expect, I will still be glad to be able to tell my son that I voted against Obama in 2008.

IMHO, a third-party vote is not a vote for my principles; it is a vote that helps Obama win. That's simply the reality of our system. Like it or not, our system is two-party, and me voting for a third-party is not going to change that one bit. I am not going to feel better about myself by effectively removing myself from the process by casting a vote for Barr or Baldwin.

X 1000...
An excellent post, there are three Supreme Court positions opening up that will sway this country for 30 years, and although none of us are crazy about all the man's policies, I think Christians have a responsibility to vote for McCain based on the abortion issue alone (but that is only my opinion). The fact is, there is a huge gap between the two candidates on this issue, as I have shown in the multiple pages of this detailed thread:
http://baptist1611.phpbb3now.com/vie...hp?f=26&t=1589

[MC1171611]

I must say that McCain's stance on abortion pales in comparison to this.

As Pat Buchanan is fond of saying, “I have been pro-life my whole life.” Chuck Baldwin has always believed that the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness can only be offered if the right to life is available.

January 22, 1973 was a dark day in U.S. history. Unlike the day that John F. Kennedy was assassinated or 9/11, many people do not remember where they were or what they were doing on that day. But, like those two horrific events, January 22, 1973 was a defining day in our history.

That was the day that the U.S. Supreme Court declared open season on unborn children. Most of us know of it as Roe Vs Wade. Before that Supreme Court Decision unborn children were cherished and loved but after that day they were disposable. … reduced to a price tag and subject to constant mark down.

Ever since the Reagan days the Republicans have been promising to “do something” about it. The Democrats…well, they just can’t seem to work up any concern at all. To date nothing has been done. They all attend the rallies and walks organized by pro-life organizations.

But being Pro-life will not be just a campaign slogan for the Baldwin Adminstration. As President, He will immediately work with Congress to pass the Sanctity of Life Act which would strip the appellate jurisdiction of the Supreme Court in all cases involving the life of an unborn child. When that happens the unborn child would once again be declared a person under the law and cannot be harmed without due process of law. Appointing Pro-life Supreme Court Justices will no longer give the Republican’s a phony rallying cry and the evil deeds of the U.S. Supreme Court on January 22, 1973 will be set aside.

President Chuck Baldwin offers another promise that none of the other candidates will offer. He will never allow what is known as embryonic stem cell research to be conducted by the United States of America. Not only is it wrong it is also unnecessary. Adult stem cell research is already saving lives and promising to save many more. Embryonic stem cell research has produced no cures at all.

Chuck believes that respect for life should be across the board – from the beginning until natural death.

We are asking for your vote, your prayers and your financial support. Please join us to help move America forward. When it comes to respect for life Chuck Baldwin is the “Real Deal.”

I too felt like voting for McCain, until I realized that it would have been a lack of faith in God on my part. I don't speak for anyone else, but I do not feel comfortable voting for McCain, so I will let my vote be heard for someone who I could openly and shamelessly stand behind and support publicly.

Originally Posted by MC1171611

I must say that McCain's stance on abortion pales in comparison to this.

Nonsense. McCain does not have a stance, he has a VOTING RECORD,
as my thread will clearly show. Baldwin is certainly a man who I respect and value, I am aware of what he did in the Reagan years, but he has never held political office and thus has never voted for anything in any branch as a politician.

Now before you reply brother, you need to remember, you can't compare campaign promises to historical votes. I'll repeat that: you cannot discredit votes with a "stance."

Please read the entire thread at the bottom, and don't tell me McCain is pale on abortion next to a promise. By the way, I also addressed the attacks against McCain and the G.O.P. from Baldwin on that thread, and the things the G.O.P has actually done to fight abortion.

I too felt like voting for McCain, until I realized that it would have been a lack of faith in God on my part. I don't speak for anyone else, but I do not feel comfortable voting for McCain, so I will let my vote be heard for someone who I could openly and shamelessly stand behind and support publicly.

Actually, as I have told other good men who support the so-called third party, you are placing a HUGE amount of faith in Baldwin who has zero voting record in public office. I feel the third party is already in place, it is the SOCIALIST party, led by Pelosi and soon Obama. Other decent men like Fred Thompson, Ron Paul and Baldwin had their chance, but it's time to cut bait or fish.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=29612
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1140124/posts

Nevertheless, I can certainly respect your views, at least right up until you try to discredit McCain's 31 pro-life votes. The man's record is not perfect, but it speaks for itself, and I had no problem voting for him. Here's that link again:
http://baptist1611.phpbb3now.com/vie...hp?f=26&t=1589

By the way, this is not a personal attack toward you at all, and no reflection on anyone personally, just politics in a difficult year, God bless.

[KJBPrincess]

What I find interesting is that so many Christians didn't like McCain until after he won the GOP nomination. Before the primary elections, Christians were complaining about how McCain was the most liberal of the Republicans and they were voting against him. Now that he's the Republican candidate, it's like he's a hero to some of those same Christians. It doesn't make any sense to me...

Originally Posted by KJBPrincess

What I find interesting is that so many Christians didn't like McCain until after he won the GOP nomination. Before the primary elections, Christians were complaining about how McCain was the most liberal of the Republicans and they were voting against him. Now that he's the Republican candidate, it's like he's a hero to some of those same Christians. It doesn't make any sense to me...

It was very predictable, Princess. Back during the primaries, many of us said that we'd never vote for McCain under any circumstances. Even the loose-talking firebrand Ann Coulter said she'd vote for Hillary before McCain. We have the luxury of making such statements at such times.

But now, we are faced with the very real prospect of a Communist in the White House. (I don't toss that word around loosely; I've been studying Communism ever since I was in elementary school!) If you've read my posts, you know that I don't regard McCain as a "hero;" I don't like him at all. But I think Palin, if she wins, may be a great leader in the future.

Let me make myself very clear. If Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, or Ted Kennedy were running on the Republican ticket, and they were the only realistic choices to defeat Obama, I'd vote for them with an utterly clean conscience.

Yes, I'd rather have someone else than McCain. I don't like him and I don't trust him. But while some good people are talking about "sending a message to the Republican Party," some very bad people are attempting to send an America-hating Communist to the White House.

I won't be part of that.

[PB1789]

Vendetta Ride:--- Very Good Post! {Except for calling Sen. McCain a "warmonger"} ... McCain wants to win the GWOT,( and you don't win by quitting before the job is done!) , otherwise the Moslem cells planted here will feel free to burn down churches in this country, and murder Christians who try to evangelize/pass out tracts, by the tacit approval of the "Indonesian Candidate" ... who admitted on the ABC interview program that he (B.Hussein O.) is a moslem. Obama is worse than Slick Willie (The Impeached), and is for Homosexuality, and Abortions.



Diligent:--- Good Post! McCain was not my first choice for the nominee, ( I liked Rep. Duncan Hunter, Gov. Huckabee ) but McCain is 100% better than the Dem. nominee! Compare the teleprompter Obama and the B.H.O. guy who can sit in a congregation for 20 years and listen to racist/anti-America jive talk from Jeremiah Wright---and then claim he never heard Wright say anything "wrong"...?!? Somebody is fibbin', and my Mom had a treatment for that: it was called "Headlock and Ivory soap treatment"!


MC1171611:--- Before you vote for a Third Party Candidate...(Which I have done years ago- Phillips of the Taxpayer/Constitution Party in 1988 I think) , I would suggest that you and Baldwin (and his supporters) FIRST try getting elected to the State Legislatures and the U.S. Congress with it's two Houses.

Our system of Government has Checks and Balances---. Congress passes bills--->Executive (White House) signs or vetoes them---> Judicial (Supreme Court) decides if they are legal. If a third Party candidate did win the White House Popular Vote...(Google Rutherford Hayes) He would lose the Electoral College Vote, which is done by the Reps. and Senators in Congress. They are NOT going to vote for someone who doesn't even have one elected member in the Congress. If you wish to make changes, then start locally and get involved with your school board and/or City Council, then County and State levels. We are called to be Salt and Light while we are here on this earth . The Constitutional Party are good folks with a pretty good platform, BUT--- This year if you vote for them,,, as Diligent alluded to in his post; You can tell your son/daughter years from now that you helped get a pro-moslem (Remember John 14:6!), Israel-hating, pro-Sodomite/Lesbo, pro-abortion, socialist elected.

Your one vote counts! Years ago in a town I lived in (Cypress,Cal.) a City Council race was won by 3 votes...in a town of several thousand folks. That city council is the ones that voted on whether to allow a Church to be built on some land which the majority of the council wanted to zone the land for a department store. The Church had to get an attorney and go to court. Now, if a majority of Christians would have been on the Council.....

DON'T WASTE YOUR VOTE!


KJB Princess:--- Sen. McCain is not my favorite Candidate as I said above. I'm more of a Rep. Duncan Hunter/ Gov. Huckabee/Amb. Alan Keyes/Pat Buchanan/Ann Coulter/Howard Phillips kind of guy.

.....But, (doncha hate that 3-letter word- ) Our choice is voting for a man: Sen. McCain , who has a solid pro-life/anti-abortion voting record; who believes that Marriage is between a man and a woman; who has attended a Baptist Church in Arizona for many years-(and invited his Pastor to pray at the Rep. Nat. Convention); served honorably as a Naval Aviator for over 20 years (several of which were in a POW prison)---which is why he can't raise his hands-arms to wave normally...he was tortured by the North Vietnamese commies by hanging him to the ceiling by his arms cuffed behind his back... !

He and his wife have adopted (at least one) a child(ren?) from a poor third world country and helped other Americans to adopt poor kids from poor countries.

The alternative is a slithery-slimey extreme leftist who has never served one day in our nation's uniform or shown any concern for our Troops which are fighting to keep the moslem terrorists overseas. He and his attorneys refuse to produce his birth-certificate, and recently the State of Hawaii has sealed his records. If you or your husband ran for office in your town in Ohio, would you hide/block your birth records ? If you travelled to Pakistan (not a garden spot-Vacation place!) with an Indonesian Passport, do you think that you would get a "Free-ride" by the big news media ?

Get to the Polling Station on Voting Day and make a Stand... before your husband is killed, you are forced to wear a head/face scarf, and your Bible-believing Church is torched! Does that sound extreme or alarmist ? It could happen folks--- in a country like Iraq were the few "Christians" in the country walk on "eggshells" and sometimes their Church buildings are bombed/torched, and in Saudi Arabia where Bibles and Churches are not allowed. That is what happens when the followers of mo-jam-head and worshippers of the Moon God of Mecca get control of a country!

Matthew 5: 13,14. Ezekial 33:6

Originally Posted by PB1789

Vendetta Ride:--- Very Good Post! {Except for calling Sen. McCain a "warmonger"} ... McCain wants to win the GWOT,( and you don't win by quitting before the job is done!) , otherwise the Moslem cells planted here will feel free to burn down churches in this country, and murder Christians who try to evangelize/pass out tracts, by the tacit approval of the "Indonesian Candidate" ... who admitted on the ABC interview program that he (B.Hussein O.) is a moslem. Obama is worse than Slick Willie (The Impeached), and is for Homosexuality, and Abortions.

I respect your opinion, brother, so please allow me to explain why I called McCain a warmonger. (I've gone over this ground many times with dear Brother Parrish!)

I know, like any American, that the Islamic terrorists are out to destroy us, and must be fought tooth and nail. I'm not a pacifist; I believe, when you need to fight, you hit 'em as hard as you can. We haven't done that since WWII, but that's the way it's supposed to be done. If I thought we could end the Islamic threat by nuking Mecca, I'd be all for it.

But I think Bush's "war on terror" has been a gimmick and a lie. Yes, he's prevented another 9/11, for which I give him due credit. But he's selective in his idea of "terrorists." The 9/11 guys came from Saudi Arabia, but Bush would curl up his toes nd die before he'd cross the Saudis. And he wholeheartedly supports the creation of a Palestinian state, which would be a genuine terrorist state. To me, such actions and inactions are not characteristic of a "war on terror," but a "war on terrorists I don't like."

McCain is not a bad man. I respect him, as a man. But it seems to me that, for one reason or another, he views wars (such as a possible war with Iran) as a first option, not the last option. I do not believe in the Bush doctrine of "pre-emptive war," and I fear that McCain does believe in it. (I hope I'm wrong, because I expect him to be elected!) America has fought righteously in the past when we've fought against those who attacked us first.

Which would include Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, but not Iraq; and, so far, not Iran. I think the Iraq war is misguided and not in keeping with our best traditions; but I don't think we can turn tail and run, as we did in Vietnam. As I say, I'm not a fool or a pacifist.

I know that Iran is, or may become, a nuclear threat; and I believe we should support Israel 100% if they decide to take Iran out. (For them, it would be a defensive war.) In fact, I think we should pretty much give Israel a blank check, in aid and military equipment; but not troops, which they don't need, and which we shouldn't send. To me, the welfare of Israel is the single most important issue in the political spectrum.

A man who believes in pre-emptive wars is, in my opinion, a warmonger. But I don't use the term the way the leftists do.

My political heroes are Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, and Margaret Thatcher. They're conservatives - - - not foreign adventurers and nation-builders like Bush.

I don't expect you to agree with me; few of the brethren do. But I want you to understand that I don't use terms like "warmonger" loosely.

Having said all that, I repeat: I hope every American in this forum votes for McCain/Palin.

[Brother Tim]

"nation-builders like Bush." Hey, VR. Was not Cyrus a nation-builder that God used?

[atlas]

VR,


How did you feel about Truman being a nation Buider with the nation of Isreal?


Atlas

[Brother Tim]

I'm not up with ancient (non-Biblical) history.