[Hayseed]

Welcome to you greenbear,I hope you find good fellowship here,so along with the others you have my good wishes too.

Mrs Hayseed

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Perhaps sometime in the near future when I am not vehicularly challenged we'll get together.

If you feel comfortable in a grace church environment, I'm sure Richard can recommend something in your area.

Sister, I don't debate much anymore. I give the Scripture and let a Christian make their own mind up. Dr. Ruckman likes to call us dry cleaners "church splitters". I wish he had taken more of a stand on the Spanish NT issue back in the 80s, that split a lot of churches. I'm no repector of denominations: If a Baptist church is held together only by water baptism, if a grace church is held together only by dispensationalism, if a pentecostal/charasmatic church is held together only by tongues, they need to be split. The Holy Spirit is what holds churches together.

Grace and peace sister, let me know what you hear from Richard

Tony

Tony,
We would be very pleased to meet you. We could travel to you, Lord willing. We never go anywhere, so it would be a treat!
Or we would love to have you visit us whenever it might be convenient for you.

I didn't see a doctrinal statement (other than grace and dispensational) on Grace Impact homepage but I requested that info as well as church locations. The website looks interesting, though.

It seems apparent to my husband and me and I believe you, as well, that the underlying reason for the splintering of the church into so many denominations is the failure of the church to distinguish between the commandments and promises to Israel from those given to the church during the age of grace, the mystery revealed through Paul.

I'm not up on all of the different dispensational positions, and I have never heard of Ruckman before this board and I don't think I will bother to investigate him. I think that the "moderate" dispensational view at least avoids the major stumbling blocks for understanding salvation by faith alone and a pre-millennial, pre-tribulational understanding of biblical prophecy. I can agree to disagree at that juncture, if I must. God forbid that we should believe that we inherit the promises that God gave to His people, Israel. The church is only a tiny blip in God's program. We are just the wild olive branch, grafted in, partaking of the blessings of the cultivated olive tree, which is Israel.

The debate over water baptism for the church age is of great significance. How many millions of people have been lost because they believed that they were saved for the reason that they were baptized as an infant? How many adults have believed that their decision to be baptized ensured their salvation without believing on Christ? These people are suffering the unimaginable torments of hell. They will spend eternity in the lake of fire. No scriptures that are given to the gentile church command or suggest water baptism.

Unity of the Spirit can't be achieved by compromise or agreeing to disagree. Church traditions obscure the truth of God's word. There is nothing new under the sun.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by Hayseed

Welcome to you greenbear,I hope you find good fellowship here,so along with the others you have my good wishes too.

Mrs Hayseed

Thank you, Mrs. Hayseed. I appreciate your warm welcome. I'm finding good fellowship even as I type this response!

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by greenbear

Tony,
We would be very pleased to meet you. We could travel to you, Lord willing. We never go anywhere, so it would be a treat!
Or we would love to have you visit us whenever it might be convenient for you.

I didn't see a doctrinal statement (other than grace and dispensational) on Grace Impact homepage but I requested that info as well as church locations. The website looks interesting, though.

It seems apparent to my husband and me and I believe you, as well, that the underlying reason for the splintering of the church into so many denominations is the failure of the church to distinguish between the commandments and promises to Israel from those given to the church during the age of grace, the mystery revealed through Paul.

I'm not up on all of the different dispensational positions, and I have never heard of Ruckman before this board and I don't think I will bother to investigate him. I think that the "moderate" dispensational view at least avoids the major stumbling blocks for understanding salvation by faith alone and a pre-millennial, pre-tribulational understanding of biblical prophecy. I can agree to disagree at that juncture, if I must. God forbid that we should believe that we inherit the promises that God gave to His people, Israel. The church is only a tiny blip in God's program. We are just the wild olive branch, grafted in, partaking of the blessings of the cultivated olive tree, which is Israel.

The debate over water baptism for the church age is of great significance. How many millions of people have been lost because they believed that they were saved for the reason that they were baptized as an infant? How many adults have believed that their decision to be baptized ensured their salvation without believing on Christ? These people are suffering the unimaginable torments of hell. They will spend eternity in the lake of fire. No scriptures that are given to the gentile church command or suggest water baptism.

Unity of the Spirit can't be achieved by compromise or agreeing to disagree. Church traditions obscure the truth of God's word. There is nothing new under the sun.

We'll touch base soon sister.

You and your hubby are exactly right. One of the things I emphasized to a new member of the forum(Buzz)when he asked where he should start reading the Bible, I told him to start with the books written to him: Romans through Philemon. It's odd that 99 percent of people who do not understand or are against dispensational Bible study quote 99 percent of their doctrine from Romans through Philemon, and are unaware of why. Just as nearly all churches have a mid-week service on Wednesdays and do not understand why. Christ was crucified on a Wednesday, not Friday. I told Buzz the same thing I told a young Jewish lady who is a convert to the gospel: Learn the difference between a Jew and a Gentile, the Body and Israel. Learn what God did yesterday, what He is doing today, and what is yet future.

In all the history of the Body of Christ I honestly could not say which is the greater contention among believers: The Scripture authority/"version" issue or water baptism. Clearly, the teaching we are regenerated by water baptism in whatever form is a heresy. Basing fellowship, church membership, even having it in a doctrinal statement is as I have said: It's not heresy, it's not sin, it's not a fault even, it's a doctrinal error based on not rightly dividing the word of God. The major cults who base themselves on Christianity(Roman Catholic, Mormons, JWs, Church Of Christ, Jesus Only Pentecostal, Way International, Worldwide Church Of God, etc.) all practice baptismal regeneration as a doctrine because regeneration is not the key within their systems, works afterwards are, plus you can lose your "regeneration". Regeneration is secondary to them, it is primary in true Christianity, and the key to eternal life.

I've had people ask me what is the correct form for water baptism: Sprinkling, pouring, or immersion, and I give them the Scriptural answer: None of the three. Water baptism is a washing.

I'm going to save any further comments on the practice among believers for the water baptism thread. I guess the rest of the forum thinks I have abandoned that one and the dispensationalist thread, I have just been busy with other thread and topics.

I shall return.

Richard Jordan, his church, their doctrine, are strictly fundamentalist. The reason Richard broke with Stam is mostly because he was fired from the Bereans over the KJV. Richard is not Calvinst by any means as Stam was, and if there is one man I'd stack up next to Dr. Ruckman as far as a teacher, it would be Richard. I have many of his cassettes, CDs, DVDs, and little tracts and booklets and he and I differ only on the "Lord's Supper". He does it, I don't.

As individuals each Christian rightly divides the Bible with just a few slight variations. I don't know if you are familiar with High Street in Columbus, but close OSU and High Street dies. Bars, clubs, eateries, record/CD stores, computer/console game stores and most of all, used book stores make up High Street. It goes 24 hours a day 7 days a week. What I think is great about this forum is take me, you, your hubby, Richard Jordan, Brandon, George, brother Parrish, Clint, Luke, and put us on High Street and observe us as we witness. You would not be able to tell us apart. The similarities between us grace believers with our IFB brethren and sisteren are greater than the differences, and the differences are not worth fighting or debating over. Discuss yes, fight, no.

Grace and peace sister, I look forward to hearing from you again.

Tony