[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Bill

I copied the following from page 110 of a book A CENTURY OF SPELLS: MORE THAN 100 TIME-TESTED, EASY-TO-USE-SPELLS by Draja Mickaharic 1988.
"To be operative, the spoken spell must contain the full faith and belief of the person speaking it. It must also project into the person, place, or thing to which it is spoken. This is the reason for the voice exercises that are given to students of magic. Voice technique must be mastered before this kind of spell is operative. When one speaks the spell, He or She is actually affecting matter with the voice, and actually transforms it in accord with the will.
The manner in which this kind of spell is spoken is of primary importance. It must be spoken with absolute conviction, and in an emotional and energetic manner. This is not a manner of speech which is easily learned, but it can be learned and must be mastered by those who would learn these spells. The speakers voice must resonate conviction so strongly that the words pass out and surround the person and area they are spoken for with a real and living spiritual force."
This is considerably different than the Apostle Paul's communication of inspired scripture recorded in 1Corinthians 2:3,4 where he says he "was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling, and my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power."
The type of willpower driven rather than truth driven communication was what was apparently used by Charles Finney in his preaching in the early 1800's and is favored by many contemporary Christians. It seems to me that the manner of speech should be considered when evaluating the messages we get from supposed Christian authorities. Strong personality seems to be a characteristic of manipulative fakes.

If you all want to see deeper and closer truth of this message in this thread, you need to read Hitler's early learning of the methods of oratory, which he learned from a body language expert and also a SEER. Alan Bullock is a source, and John Toland in his book ADOLF HITLER speaks of witnesses watching Hitler practice his gestures for HOURS in front of a mirror to make his speeches look spontaneous. Many times women(and men) would pass out, just as they did at performances of the Beatles, just a release of pent up and repressed emotions that he was able to tap.

A contrast is Joseph Stalin a very short and uninspiring speaker who spoke as if it bored him, his words of course were not backed up by any conviction or power but by the CHEKA(KGB) and the guns of the Red Army.

Grace and peace

Tony

[Bill]

Regarding Bro. Parrish's remark on how God can use all different personalities; I agree fully. It is when the willpower of a person replaces truth as the driving force, or effectiveness of their communication, that I think a listener should become very skeptical. Strong personalities are not the only way to deceive and corrupt. Powerful displays of compassion by speakers identifying with the poor and needy by showing psychological weakness is used to promote the errors of liberation theology, which I have another post on. Any admirable human quality can be used to enhance deception by people who learn the theatrical methods. My reference to Charles Finney is because he was observed to overpower people psychologically during his sermons. He apparently thought that conversions could be made by getting people excited. The "new methods" used for evangelism included ignoring the Biblical instructions regarding different functions for men and women, which indicates to me that he thought his promotional abilities placed his judgement above the Bible.

[Debau]

Originally Posted by Winman

Check out this video on "conversational hypnosis", it is pretty amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZZLu...om=PL&index=15

All kidding aside, it depends on the will of the subject regardless of the level of technique. This guy was considered the best, but even he had his days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sNWc...eature=related

[Bill]

I think there is a difference between a spell that is cast and hypnosis because hypnosis depends on the willingness of the hypnotized and a spell is to be effective regardless of what any other human thinks. Magic, including casting spells, is thought to be a spiritual technology similar to physics or biology except magic deals with spiritual laws to access forces and manipulate people and spirits. I recommend reading about how Charles Finney declared that conversion to Christianity could be achieved by the proper use of methods (technology) and was not a miracle from God because those ideas have been passed along to contemporary Christians and are possibly the basis for some of the strange doctrines and practices in use now.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Bill

I think there is a difference between a spell that is cast and hypnosis because hypnosis depends on the willingness of the hypnotized and a spell is to be effective regardless of what any other human thinks. Magic, including casting spells, is thought to be a spiritual technology similar to physics or biology except magic deals with spiritual laws to access forces and manipulate people and spirits. I recommend reading about how Charles Finney declared that conversion to Christianity could be achieved by the proper use of methods (technology) and was not a miracle from God because those ideas have been passed along to contemporary Christians and are possibly the basis for some of the strange doctrines and practices in use now.

I am a firm believer in the supernatural, you have to be to be a Christian, I just don't buy into a lot of the occultic practices of this stuff actually working. The street ministry is an example of what I am talking about here. As with Paul's contention with Hymenaus and Alexander, the coppersmith/silversmiths who sold idols, Christianity will kill an interest in the occult and we had many fortune tellers and "witches" on the street. They cast "spells" on me all the time, blatantly and in the open. I told one, you don't want to do that in front of witnesses, I'll know who to prosecute if my nose falls off. You see on the street many truths the Scriptures teach. Indeed many people's God is their belly and that the root of all evil is the love of money.

Grace and peace

Tony

[MARANATHA]

The bugs bunny video is a great reminder that we should be careful as to who we follow!