Originally Posted by Koontzy

didnt he also run against Lincoln for congress?

"Crowds flocked to hear him. Throughout Kentucky, Tennessee and Illinois, Cartwright preached to hosts of men and women, speaking three hours at a stretch, several times a week. The conviction in his booming voice could make women weep and strong men tremble..."

"Running for Congress in 1846, Peter Cartwright lost to none other than Abraham Lincoln. In 1832, over a decade earlier, however, Cartwright had defeated Lincoln in a race for the Illinois legislature..."
http://www.forgottenword.org/cartwright.html

"In over 50 years of traveling circuits in Kentucky, Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, Cartwright received 10,000 members into the Methodist Church, personally baptized 12,000, conducted over 500 funerals, and preached more than 15,000 sermons. He was strongly opposed to comfort in religion, education, and culture in the ministry; his equipment consisted of a black broadcloth suit and a horse with saddlebags, while his library was composed of his Bible, hymnbook, and Methodist discipline..."
http://www.fbbc.com/messages/Cartwright.htm

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Koontzy

didnt he also run against Lincoln for congress?

During their campaign against each other, Lincoln attended a prayer meeting held by Peter Cartwright. Cartwright said from the pulpit, those who wish to go to heaven please stand. Lincoln stayed seated. Cartwright asked him, Brother Lincoln, do you not wish to go to heaven. Lincoln replied, if it's all the same to you, I'd rather go to Washington.

Grace and peace

Tony

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

Except that the KJB never says it was originally written in Aramaic, nor is it anywhere spoken in the KJB.

Brother, it is in one verse, I have not researched where Aramaic is spoken elsewhere:

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Grace and peace

Tony

[bibleprotector]

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The words "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" are Hebrew, written in the Greek language, now in English.

There are three explanations for the Hebrew word "Eloi".

1. The Hebrew word "Eloi" is given in a Hellenistic form.
2. That, according to John Gill, both "Eli" and "Eloi" are in Psalm 22 in Hebrew.
3. That Jesus said the saying both ways, the "Eli" time it was explained "that is to say", the "Eloi" time, it was interpreted, the end result being the same, namely, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

In all this, there is no indication in the New Testament that a language called Aramaic was known or spoken. Pilate wrote the superscription of the cross in Latin, Greek and Hebrew. Hebrew is said a number of times to be the Jews' tongue, their proper tongue, etc. in the New Testament. Aramaic was not there. Even the Syriac language, or the Syriack-Chaldee, were not common Judaea or the Galilee religion. The only time we know of them is on the day of Pentecost as "other tongues".

Likewise, Aramaic is not mentioned in the Old Testament, neither was any portion written in a language by that name. We do see that Syriack is used of the Chaldees, etc.

[Tmonk]

Matthew 16
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Before being named Peter by Christ his name was Simon Barjona and we obviously know Peters' fathers name is Jona or Jonah. Bar-Jona is an Aramaic conjunction. Hebrew adds "ben" meaning "son of" or son, bar is the Aramaic equivalent meaning " Simon son of Jona"

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mr 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

The words "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" are Hebrew, written in the Greek language, now in English.

There are three explanations for the Hebrew word "Eloi".

1. The Hebrew word "Eloi" is given in a Hellenistic form.
2. That, according to John Gill, both "Eli" and "Eloi" are in Psalm 22 in Hebrew.
3. That Jesus said the saying both ways, the "Eli" time it was explained "that is to say", the "Eloi" time, it was interpreted, the end result being the same, namely, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

In all this, there is no indication in the New Testament that a language called Aramaic was known or spoken. Pilate wrote the superscription of the cross in Latin, Greek and Hebrew. Hebrew is said a number of times to be the Jews' tongue, their proper tongue, etc. in the New Testament. Aramaic was not there. Even the Syriac language, or the Syriack-Chaldee, were not common Judaea or the Galilee religion. The only time we know of them is on the day of Pentecost as "other tongues".

Likewise, Aramaic is not mentioned in the Old Testament, neither was any portion written in a language by that name. We do see that Syriack is used of the Chaldees, etc.

If you check the Jacob ben Chiyim text of the Old Testament that the KJV translators followed you'll find a goodly portion of Daniel and Ezra written in Chaldee.

The outcry from the cross by Christ is Aramaic. The pronunciation varies from "aylee" of Aramaic to "elah" of Hebrew.

A.T. Robertson writes in Word Pictures for this verse:

"This is the only sentence of any length in Aramaic preserved in Matthew, though he has Aramaic words like amen, corban, mammon, pascha, raca, Satan, Golgotha."

Trench, Strong, Dr. Ruckman all agree with this statement.

I was going to mention that it's dispensationally prophetic that the Lord should utter this terrible cry in a Judaized form of a Gentile language in light of Eph. 3, but I won't.

Grace and peace

Tony

[bibleprotector]

"amen, corban, mammon, ... raca, Satan, Golgotha" are Hebrew.

Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Is the King James Bible wrong when it says "Hebrew"?

As for "pascha", that is not a KJB word.

Bar-Jona is an Aramaic conjunction

While some commentators say that "Bar" is Syrian, this is unlikely, for several reasons,
1. the untranslated words spoken in the New Testament are Hebrew.
2. Hebrew is the proper tongue, a common language at the time, e.g. John 5:2, Acts 1:19, Pilate’s superscription, etc.
3. why would unlearned fishermen know how to speak Syrian?

Ac 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,

Also, Syrian has "Ben", as in "Ben-hadad".

There is no indication of a language called Aramaic being used in the OT to write any portion of the OT, and it is significantly doubtful if the Syrian language is being used at all in the NT.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

"amen, corban, mammon, ... raca, Satan, Golgotha" are Hebrew.

Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Is the King James Bible wrong when it says "Hebrew"?

As for "pascha", that is not a KJB word.



While some commentators say that "Bar" is Syrian, this is unlikely, for several reasons,
1. the untranslated words spoken in the New Testament are Hebrew.
2. Hebrew is the proper tongue, a common language at the time, e.g. John 5:2, Acts 1:19, Pilate’s superscription, etc.
3. why would unlearned fishermen know how to speak Syrian?

Ac 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,

Also, Syrian has "Ben", as in "Ben-hadad".

There is no indication of a language called Aramaic being used in the OT to write any portion of the OT, and it is significantly doubtful if the Syrian language is being used at all in the NT.

While we are majoring on the minors here, to that list of commentators we are throwing out let's add Matthew Henry also.

The Chaldee language of Daniel and Ezra is there for all to see. In my pet verse, Daniel 3:25, the corrupted reading is "bar elaheen" which is Chaldee for "a son of the gods". In Hebrew the reading would be "bene eloheem", a "son of the gods". Fortunately the correct reading is "bar eli", "the son of God"; "ben elah" were Daniel 3 written in Hebrew.

When Paul preached the mystery of the Jewish-Gentile Body from Ephesians 3 he preached it by revelation and also by the OT Scriptures, they were all he had at the moment. There are instances of Gentiles mysteriously popping up perhaps where they seemingly didn't belong, as in the portions of Daniel and Ezra. In this contested passage in Matthew we see Christ prophetically hinting at this revelation of Eph. 3 given only to Paul in His use of a Judaized Gentile tongue when he uttered this terrible cry. We are here in Acts 29, looking back on these incidents and similes. This Scripture in Matthew has opened the understanding of this truth unto everyone I ever taught it to(Job 32:8). Of course, you have to be a church splitting, dry cleaning hyperdispensationalist to see this truth.

Grace and peace,

Tony

[bibleprotector]

"This is the only sentence of any length in Aramaic preserved in Matthew, though he has Aramaic words like ... Golgotha."

Trench, Strong, Dr. Ruckman all agree with this statement.

Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Who exactly is saying the KJB is wrong in this verse?

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

Joh 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Who exactly is saying the KJB is wrong in this verse?

I'll say that any objections you have to the the cry from the cross being Aramaic or not is one you'll have to take up with Trench, Robertson, Strong, Matthew Henry, and Dr. Ruckman next time you see them. This is another non-issue. BTW, the Hebrew word for skull, "gulgoleth" is found in Judges and II Kings, but you probably already know that already.

Grace and peace to you,

Tony