It wouldn't be a gift if you were forced to have it. A gift is something freely offered.

Question: if you made no personal choice to receive Christ and His gift of salvation, why should we even believe you are saved and are one of the elect?

Originally Posted by beloved57

Nope, its not a gift then its a offer, the bible does not say that the wages of sin are death, but the offer of the gift is eternal life..

Jesus did not say in jn 17:

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Here is beth version

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should offer eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

If a man offers marriage to a women are they married? Doesn't the woman have to agree to the marriage. In a covenant relationship there is an offer and an acceptance. If a man forces the women to marry him, is this a loving relationship?

It's the same with Jesus, He offers freely to all the gift of salvation. We must receive this gift to have the gift. God wants a family in heaven that loves Him freely of their own will. When we repent and trust in Jesus, we become in agreement with God. We are reconciled unto God. We are in agreement with the will of God. We must surrender our own will.

This is basic Christian doctrine on salvation.

you might ask, "how does one surrender his own will"

a humble heart may surrender his own will. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

James 4:6-10 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Read through your posts. Are you humble?

It's the same with Jesus, He offers freely to all the gift of salvation.

The bible doesnt say that your human philsophy says that. The word offer is never used in the context of salvation..its something jesus gives not offer..

Jn 17:

2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

give give give not offer..

you might ask, "how does one surrender his own will"

a humble heart may surrender his own will. God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.

You have to be born again first to be humble, natural man cannot be humble, we are proud by nature..

Read through your posts. Are you humble?

Yes I am by the grace of God, but you are not, because you exalt man instead of God..

If a man offers marriage to a women are they married? Doesn't the woman have to agree to the marriage.

Thats not biblical marriage..God explains that here gen 2:

22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

God brings his bride to the bridegroom..because she was made from him..

eph 5:

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

The church christ bride was chosen in him before the world began..


And on top of that the marriages of the patriarchs never needed the permission of the women she was given in marriage, in fact she had no say so whatever..

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by beloved57

Yeah but you dont understand the gift. The gift is given to the elect, just as death was given..It was not a matter of Individual choice or freewill..

I'm just curious: why waste your time here trying to preach your message of fatalism to people who obviously won't respond to it?

Originally Posted by Diligent

I'm just curious: why waste your time here trying to preach your message of fatalism to people who obviously won't respond to it?

I am not wasting my time God has a purpose for it..

isa 55

11So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God has a purpose for His Word - not your opinions.