[Brother Tim]

We have a number of birds in our backyard that my wife and I observe from our back porch. The cardinals are frequent visitors as are the black-capped chickadees and house finches. One thing I have never observed is any of them kissing any of the others, regardless of species! I have observed my cat licking my dog's face and vice-versa.

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

We have a number of birds in our backyard that my wife and I observe from our back porch. The cardinals are frequent visitors as are the black-capped chickadees and house finches. One thing I have never observed is any of them kissing any of the others, regardless of species! I have observed my cat licking my dog's face and vice-versa.

Excellent points!

Also, I disagree with Doc's stance on this. It is one of perhaps the three things I disagree with him on, but nevertheless I do disagree. There is really no Scriptural basis for forbidding "interracial" marriage today under the Gospel of Grace.

(I took a good bit of his Genesis class too...I know where he's coming from and I still disagree )

[stephanos]

I do not believe there is anything in this dispensation that could prohibit interratial marriage (Paul doesn't ever mention it when he speaks of men taking wives). Nor do I think ANYONE could make the case against such a marriage (I'm sure people try, and I'm willing to bet they fail to rightly divide and resort to using the OT). As far as I see it, we are all descendents of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, along with their wives. The only benefits one could attribute to genetic purity, in my opinion, are completely carnal. Those benefits would only appeal to ones sense of self worth, and ultimately would service ones pride.

... the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (1 John 2:16 KJV)

At the end of the day we all will shed this corrupt flesh and put on the incorruptable and be like Jesus. And I'll tell you one thing I know for sure, Lord Jesus is engaged to marry every single member of His Church, and He doesn't care if any of us are black, white, asian, greek or jew. We are ALL precious in His sight!

So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (Romans 12:5 KJV)

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28 KJV)

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (Ephesians 1:10 KJV)

So let us put aside this petty little debate. It makes us look bad.

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

Originally Posted by BrianT

he didn't make "white" man and "black" man in the Garden of Eden. He made "man". He made "Adam and Eve", not "Robert and Susie, and Tyrone and Shaniqua".

LOL, and he didn't make Adam and Steve either...
it occurs to me that while the Christians were debating this kind of thing, the world pulled the rug out from under them and redefined marriage to suit its own standards. As the Prop 8 issue shows, Bible believers and all other traditionalists are about to be portrayed as the worst haters on the planet like never before. It's no longer about race, it's about gender:
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=787

Originally Posted by KJBPrincess

Umm... so it's truth just because Dr. Ruckman says it?

No, there are things I don't agree with him on either. But he provides so much Biblical evidence for it. I think most are scared to look at what he presents in case they have to change their mind to line up with Scripture.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by aussiemama

I think most are scared to look at

And what qualifies you to judge people as "scared" to "look" at this (even though most of us already have)? Here you have blurted your opinion without offering any Scriptural support, and when pressed to provide evidence you merely defer to a man and accuse us of being "scared."

[George]

Originally Posted by aussiemama

So, because someone has a beautiful interracial marriage and shares about it, that makes it right? Why are we taking personal stories and elevating them higher than God's Word? Now, if you have a BIBLICAL argument as to why you think interracial marriage is ok, I don't mind hearing those, but personal stories are irrelevant when discussing matters of right and wrong.

The following are some of Aussie mama’s quotes in regards to “interracial marriage”:

“All throughout the Bible there is warnings not to marry different races.”

I asked before and you never answered, so I say again: Please give us the CHAPTERS & VERSES? If what you say: “All throughout the Bible there is warnings not to marry different races.” is true, you should be able to give us SOME verses (at least) to support your “belief”! (Or the “belief” of whomever you are following)

“As Christians, we are to obey the Bible, not to be politically correct. The whole "integration" movement is, in my opinion, part of the politically correct agenda that we as Christians need to stay away from. I will post about why our family believes interracial marriage to be wrong. (As a side note, last time I said anything about this I got a heap of junk from Ken Ham sent to me...I am not interested in what Ken Ham has to say...he doesn't even believe the King James Bible for starters. If you can refute what I say that's fine, I'm just not interested in what he has to say anymore because I think I've been sent it so many times I have almost memorized it ha-ha).”

I don’t want to know: “why our family believes interracial marriage to be wrong.” I have asked for CHAPTERS & VERSES in support of your “belief”. Your personal “opinion” or your family’s “opinion” are of no interest to genuine Bible believers, we want Scriptural proof for your personal “beliefs”!

“Hope this helps explain my beliefs a little. By the way, I know many black friends who believe it is wrong for them to marry white people or Orientals, and nobody calls them racist. It's only racist if a white person says it, as usual in this world.”

Once again, I don’t care what your many black friends “believe” - you claimed: “All throughout the Bible there is warnings not to marry different races.” And yet all you have given us is your “opinion” or other people’s opinions or “beliefs”. You have yet to give us any Scriptures in support of your “racist opinions”!

“LOL no I would not have started this topic. I only added to it. I wanted to make one good post on the subject and then leave it alone because I figured I would be outnumbered but that doesn't change what I believe. Since I am outnumbered and it's sensitive, though, I only really wanted to make one post. I also did not intend to stir the pot which is why I wanted to have it all collected in one post so that I did not appear to be arguing. I just wanted to present another viewpoint. I don't plan on saying much more on the subject. I won't promise that it and this will be my only posts because the minute I do that something will happen and I'll add to it lol.”

“I will add one more thing ... I don't know how interracial couples manage...my husband and I are in a cross cultural marriage (both European) and even that is hard enough!”

You were the one who wondered and were puzzled about: “I don't know how interracial couples manage” and I answered with my personal testimony (Post #40), to which you niggling replied: “So, because someone has a beautiful interracial marriage and shares about it, that makes it right? Why are we taking personal stories and elevating them higher than God's Word? Now, if you have a BIBLICAL argument as to why you think interracial marriage is ok, I don't mind hearing those, but personal stories are irrelevant when discussing matters of right and wrong.” You were the one who wondered how interracial couples “manage”, and when I answered you with my testimony you take a “cheapshot” at my answer – my, my, you not only have a lot to learn about “rightly dividing the word of God”; you have a whole lot to learn about Christian charity! I try real hard on this Forum (and elsewhere) not to get “personal” with ad homonym attacks on people, but in your case I am going to make an exception: If you are so petty as to attack my testimony (in answer to your puzzlement) - I pity your husband!

“I doubt you'll like the truth Dr Ruckman sheds on the matter since you don't believe that interracial marriage is wrong. Glad someone stands for truth rather than trying to be politically correct.”

You keep claiming that the Bible teaches against "interracial marriage", but you keep quoting other people! When I want to know the “Truth” about a Scriptural matter, I do not go to brother Ruckman to shed light on a Bible issue, I search the Holy Scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to guide me: John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. As much as I appreciate brother Peter Ruckman, he is a very poor “substitute” for the Holy Spirit!

Your Posts are quite instructive as to why women, especially women who are new born babes in Christ, should not be trying to “instruct” those of us Bible believing Christians (men) who have been studying the Bible longer than you have been living. And, if a woman is married, she should be learning from her husband; or older Christian women; or elders (men) in a church. However, in this day and age, it is practically impossible for the “emancipated” and “liberated” Western woman (saved or unsaved) who is guided by her personal beliefs and/or "feelings", to keep from "expressing herself" - so I expect that you will continue to give us your “opinions” or the “opinions” of those you “respect” in the place of Scripture.

Henceforth, those of us who are genuine Bible believers will continue to ignore your “opinions”, (and the “opinions” of your friends, relatives, and those whom you admire) and just chalk the whole thing up to the fact that, when it comes to rightly dividing the word of God (and obeying God’s words), most Western women (American, Canadian, European, and Australian) will simply choose to ignore every Scriptural teaching and injunction concerning the conduct of Christian women, and will instead insist on relying on their own “feelings” and “opinions” and following their feminist convictions and beliefs.

A review of your Posts on this subject clearly demonstrates that you are “parroting” other people’s opinions, beliefs, and convictions, but you, yourself, are unable to defend your “personal beliefs” or demonstrate (from the Scriptures) that what you believe is true, and so you end up dismissing anything anyone else offers as being “irrelevant” without offering any proof (from the Holy Bible) that you know what you are talking about.

In this day and age (Dispensation) God has divided up the people of the world into three (3) categories: The JEWS, the GENTILES, and the CHURCH (born again children of God) 1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:. Any other division is not only in "error", it is heresy (false doctrine), and as such should be rejected immediately and refuted whenever it is brought up!

I skimmed through this thread, and if some one has already beaten me to it, I'm sorry. The only Scripture that deals with interracial marriage is here:

Deu 23:3 "No Ammonite or Moabite may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of them may enter the assembly of the LORD forever,
Deu 23:4 because they did not meet you with bread and with water on the way, when you came out of Egypt, and because they hired against you Balaam the son of Beor from Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse you.
Deu 23:5 But the LORD your God would not listen to Balaam; instead the LORD your God turned the curse into a blessing for you, because the LORD your God loved you.
Deu 23:6 You shall not seek their peace or their prosperity all your days forever.
Deu 23:7 "You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. You shall not abhor an Egyptian, because you were a sojourner in his land.
Deu 23:8 Children born to them in the third generation may enter the assembly of the LORD.

Note Edomites are descended from Shem and Egyptians are from Ham, so we see the patter for marriage is culture rather than race. Scripture is blind to Darwinian racism. Anyone who has been in the land long enough for cultural differences to be understood by both families can marry regardless of race, with the two exceptions that came about by incest.