Originally Posted by Here Am I

What do you mean 'clean heart'?

When I say "clean heart", I mean that a person really mean what he says.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Quote:
Do God forgive that person's sins at that moment?
Is the the person saved at that moment?
If the person dies the next day, would he go to heaven, or to hell?
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Yes. Yes. Heaven.


Quote:
Then a year later, the person says to God, "God I do not wish to serve you anymore. Also, I do not want to have salvation"

Is the person saved anymore?
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Only God and the person know if he/she was truly saved. You and I cannot know for sure, even though we might think we can tell by their actions.

You contradict yourself. Back a moment ago, you said that if a person does repents before GOD with a clean heart, then the person is saved and will go to heaven. Now, you are saying that your not sure if the person was saved originally

Originally Posted by Here Am I

No, once you are truly saved, you cannot do anything to lose it.

Wow, you sound just like my friend that said "You must go to a church, and become saved. After you are saved, you can sin as much, and you won't lose your salvation."

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Quote:
If the person dies the next day, would he go to Heaven or to Hell?

If they'd been saved at some point, then they'd go to Heaven. If they just made a false profession, they'd go to Hell.

Well what if at the begining, the person truly repented and a year later, the person truly did not want God.

You know, If you read the explanition of this parable, then you will see that some people truly come to God, and then fall away from God(Mat 13:20-21)
The parable is in Matthew 13:18-23

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Quote:
Another questions, What if a saved person sins with "the unforgiveable sin"? Is that person still saved?

The only unforgiveable sin in this age is rejecting Christ. That would mean that the person is not saved, and therefore could not be 'still' saved.

What I was refering to was Matthew 12:32.
I was trying to ask "What if a saved person speaketh against the Holy Ghost?"
Is he still saved or not

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Your turn. What did you think of the answers I gave you before? Do you have questions? Do you have doubts? What did you think?

You have said many things. Please post the messages that I have left out. Thanks.

[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Notice, that Jesus says "neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" This says that no one will be able to steal the salvation of a peron, if the person want to be with GOd.

You're reading something into the verse that is not there, brother (sister?):

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one." (John 10:28-30)

Where does it say "If the person wants to be with God"? It doesn't.

Where does it infer "If the person wants to be with God"? It doesn't.

What does it say?

1) God gives us eternal life
2) We will never perish
3) No man can pluck them out of God's hand
4) God the Father, is greater than all
5) No man can pluck them out of God's hand
6) Jesus the Son and God the Father are one

It does not say that we "will never perish unless we decide to not be with God anymore".

Also, there's the difficulty of being forever sealed and indwelt:

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30)

Sealed until the day of redemption.

We also are part of Jesus once we are His, so how could we 'undo' that merger with the most powerful being in the universe? Is any of us that mighty?

"For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day." (2 Timothy 1:12)

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." (John 17:11)

"Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts." (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22)

God 'keeps' us, and 'seals' us once we are born again.

Keep in mind that God has given us free will. Therefore, if we are in God's hand, we have the option to stay or to leave. However, no one can forse us out of God's hand. The only way that we can leave God's hand, is if we chose to do so with our own will.

Do you really think that God is so incompetent that He cannot 'keep' His children, as He has promised?

Why are you so eager to prove that you can lose your salvation? Is it because you feel that you have to do something in order to keep it?

If that were so, then what was the point of Jesus dying on the cross? I mean, if you have to do something like keep the Commandments in order to keep your salvation, then you're making my Lord and Saviour into a pretty poor administrator of His grace and mercy.

Most people I have met who insist that they have to 'do' something in order to 'keep' their salvation or even to 'earn' it, are trying to 'save' themselves, making the cross of none effect, basically saying that they don't need God to do anything, they can handle their own salvation, thankyouverymuch....

And do not forget...

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." (1 Corinthians 6:19,20)

Once you have given yourself to God, have been born again, YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN, YOU ARE BOUGHT (and owned) BY GOD.

So, who is any one of us to say that our life is our own, once we have been saved?

Once we are bought by His blood, He cannot deny us. "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." (2 Timothy 2:13)

I agree, that from God's part, that he will never let us go. What about from Humans part?

What if a human want to stop being in God's hand? Does that mean that God will still hold the person in the hand?

See my Scripture above...God will NEVER leave or forsake you, you are kept forever once you are saved.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

They were clean, washed of their sins, by their faith. However, they, as we, pick up daily dirt on our feet, we 'sin' in little ways even if we're very good. That's why we need to ask the Lord to forgive us and to cleanse us, daily, to get the 'dirt' off our feet.

Like I said about the temptations of Jesus. (Matthew 4:1-10)
That if a bad thought comes into your mind, and you accept the thought, then you sinned.
If a bad thought comes into your mind, and you reject the thought, then you do not sin.

According to your theory, Jesus sinned, while being in the desert, because there came bad thoughts into the head of Jesus.

Now, where did you get that from my words?

[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by Here Am I

What do you mean 'clean heart'?

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

When I say "clean heart", I mean that a person really mean what he says.

So, you mean 'sincere'. Okay.

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Do God forgive that person's sins at that moment?
Is the the person saved at that moment?
If the person dies the next day, would he go to heaven, or to hell?

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Yes. Yes. Heaven.

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Then a year later, the person says to God, "God I do not wish to serve you anymore. Also, I do not want to have salvation"

Is the person saved anymore?

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Only God and the person know if he/she was truly saved. You and I cannot know for sure, even though we might think we can tell by their actions.

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

You contradict yourself. Back a moment ago, you said that if a person does repents before GOD with a clean heart, then the person is saved and will go to heaven. Now, you are saying that your not sure if the person was saved originally

No, I'm not saying that. If the person is truly saved, I do not think a year later they would say "I do not want to have salvation". To me, that indicates that the person probably was not saved, but only God and the person know for sure. It's not a contradiction, friend.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

No, once you are truly saved, you cannot do anything to lose it.

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Wow, you sound just like my friend that said "You must go to a church, and become saved. After you are saved, you can sin as much, and you won't lose your salvation."

LOL! I sound like your friend in that I said once saved, you won't lose your salvation.

The rest you added, I did not say it.

I've already addressed the 'sin as much' as you want, idea, in a previous post.

Nice try.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

If they'd been saved at some point, then they'd go to Heaven. If they just made a false profession, they'd go to Hell.

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Well what if at the begining, the person truly repented and a year later, the person truly did not want God.

You're really stuck on the idea of someone not wanting to be saved a year after supposedly getting saved.

Let me ask you three questions:

When did you get born again?

Has it been a year, yet?

Do you want to be 'unsaved'?

Just curious, it seems to border on an obsession with you.

You know, If you read the explanition of this parable, then you will see that some people truly come to God, and then fall away from God(Mat 13:20-21)

I just re-read that passage, and I don't see anything about people truly coming to God and then falling away. Are you sure you mean that passage of Scripture?

I'll answer the rest in a bit, I'd like to see your response, first.

[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

You have said many things. Please post the messages that I have left out. Thanks.

Well, you asked many things, I was just trying to answer them.

I await your answers to my answers to your questions...

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Well, I read the Bible, and through the Bible, I form my doctrines. I am involved in two Bible schools, but I have found some biblical contradictions in
them. So I don't rely on the Bible schools anymore to form my doctrines. However, I still will finish the Bible school to receive certificates and college credits. I like to talk to other people who have different biblical beliefs, in order to see if I have a misunderstanding of the Bible.

Really, if you come to my church, it would be hard to place a specific denomination on it. So we are non-denominational.

What denomination are you?

I am a member of an independant Baptist Church. While denominations in and of themselves are not important, the denomination that a Church identifies itself as is usually a good indication of the doctrinal direction that the congregation follows. I dont wish to be offensive to you in saying this,but
non-denominational churches can more often than not be better described as "non-directional", in my opinion.

This is the impression that I get about you from reading your posts. You seem to believe that it is your effort in obtaining Gods approval that is the primary factor in your salvation rather than Christs sacrifice, and that it is your own efforts rather than Christs that keeps you saved.

This is not the Gospel of Christ, it is the gospel of cults such as the Jehovas Witnesses and other groups that do not hold the KJB as the final authority in all things.

Hopefully you will read and understand the many good replies given to you by Bible believing Christians here on this site and you will come to a true understanding and acceptance of salvation.

fundy

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by wwjd.usa

Please read, and answer these questions:
Ok, well what if a person come to God with a clean heart, and says "God, I'm sorry that I did bad things in the past. I want my sins forgiven, and I want to be saved"

Do God forgive that person's sins at that moment?

The problem is, no such person exists.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

If you think someone has to have a "clean heart" to be saved, then you've put salvation out of reach. Your works-based gospel is false from the first assumption.

I think we are to try as hard as we can to live as perfect as we can and please God in every way. I think for us ( as human beings ) to as perfect as Christ would be close to impossible because Jesus was perfect in every way. He came to do the will of His Father and nothing or no one would stop him and He did just that ! Living a godly live, as a light in the darkness, shining for the sinners, leading them and guiding them in the direction, away from evil, to the Lord through our faith and trust in God.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by KingJamesReader

I think we are to try as hard as we can to live as perfect as we can and please God in every way. I think for us ( as human beings ) to as perfect as Christ would be close to impossible because Jesus was perfect in every way. He came to do the will of His Father and nothing or no one would stop him and He did just that ! Living a godly live, as a light in the darkness, shining for the sinners, leading them and guiding them in the direction, away from evil, to the Lord through our faith and trust in God.

Hello King James Reader. Here is a thread I think you'll enjoy reading and benefit from. The somewhat "lengthy" post is #3, by JMWHALEN, located at:

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Hello King James Reader. Here is a thread I think you'll enjoy reading and benefit from. The somewhat "lengthy" post is #3, by JMWHALEN, located at:

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629

LOL, JMWHALEN is such a blessing!

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen