[George]

Originally Posted by jerry

Ruckman knocks Cloud in his own books.

The Bible commands us and teaches us to be discerning - to compare everything taught by anyone with the Word of God itself. I have a problem with Ruckman because some of his teachings do NOT line up with the Word of God - and out of obedience, I take note of that warn others about it.

Sorry, I don't believe in the lovey-feel good Christianity that says let everyone believe and do what they want as long as we call them our brethren. The Bible teaches us to be discerning and expose what does not line up. I am doing so. Sorry if you refuse to heed your Bible in this area.

Brother Ruckman doesn't have a whole page on his web site devoted to criticizing and bashing brother Cloud - But David Cloud has an entire page on his web site criticizing and bashing brother Ruckman. (That speaks "volumes" about the difference between the two men!)

My previous post was not in reference to "discerning", it is in reference to "judging" You have a "knack" for ignoring the salient points of others and hastily judging them without much evidence i.e. your quote in reference to me:

"Sorry if you refuse to heed your Bible in this area". - underlines are mine.{George}

If you refuse to read and check out brother Ruckman's works (first hand) and instead rely on others for your information about him you can't possibly judge him fairly or righteously ("hearsay" is not allowed in a "court of law" - why would you rely on it when judging a fellow Christian?)

I don't believe in the "lovey-feel good Christianity", and if you are accusing me of holding that view come out and say it. "Real men say what they mean, and mean what they say"! I've been a Christian for 50 years and in that whole time no one, I repeat, no one has ever accused me of being a "lovey-feel good" kind of Christian. All you have to do is read my posts on this Forum or my essays and lessons on my web site and you would know better - but on the other hand maybe you would prefer to "judge" me by "hearsay" also? I've been called many things in the last 50 years - but I've never been accused of being soft! I'm offended!

But on a serious note: You might just consider that I have been aware of the King James issue and the "players" involved since 1968; I believe that I read where you came upon the "issue" about 1998 or so - do you think it possible that I "might" know just a "little" more than you about who and what is involved in this debate, if I have had an approximately 30 year head start on you?

You weren't around in 1968 or 1978 or 1988 fighting this battle when Edward Hills, J. J. Ray, David Otis Fuller, and Peter Ruckman were practically the only ones around that were contending for the faith in "The Book", and practically all of the so-called Christian schools (and Christian "scholars" - scribes) were ignoring Hills, Ray, and Fuller - but they couldn't "ignore" Ruckman! He wouldn't let them!

If you are ignorant of this time, you shouldn't be so hasty to condemn a man, whom I know - because I witnessed it "first hand"; that God used (despite his many "faults) mightily in the defense of His Holy Word. You weren't there, you didn't observe or experience what happened - I did. How quickly God's people forget, or worse yet - never bother to inquire.

Today there are many men of God that now take a strong stand for the King James Bible - back then there were only a small handful of men that stood against the "Tide" of "Unbelieving Christian Scholarship" and many of them were not very effective, but Peter Ruckman was. I know this to be true because I was there - and you weren't. "Discern" all you want brother (I notice that in your post that you avoided the word - "Judge"), but I would advise you to be "careful" when you "judge" a brother in Christ - whom you do not know.