I would like to make some general statements about the unfortunate conflict on this thread, maybe to help smooth it over, though I don't know if that will be the result. This isn't really the place for such a discussion but it's where the problem came up so I'll go with it.

I do think that if a Christian feels it is very important to correct another Christian it should be done in private, and not in a way that is publicly exposing them to humiliation. Public humiliation is for church discipline of a person well known to a congregation after suitable attempts to discuss a problem in private have failed. It only seems right to be cautious about correcting a Christian you do not know personally and who may have a different church background than you have. Are you really trying to correct, to help the person, or are you just lording it over the person? I do think that needs some prayerful consideration.

I also think sarcastic cracks should be avoided, such as telling me I don't know English simply because I dared to consider what the original Greek words Paul used for "covering" are. There seem to be many hidden "rules" in this forum that are unfamiliar to me, such as the attitude that there is no need to investigate the Greek to understand the Bible. Well, I do appreciate the basic idea behind this, and this place has made me aware of many of the horrible effects imposed on Christians by the acceptance of the new Bible versions, including the fact that we have to get used to looking up the original languages, which really should not be required of us. So I appreciate that basic idea, but to ridicule a person who does do that doesn't show a spirit of helpfulness at all.

That said, I really am interested in knowing what women are Biblically permitted to do. I don't want to discuss that on this thread but I am interested. Especially if there are rules here that I'm not aware of. I'm not completely sure what I'm being criticized for.

If it is for disagreeing with men, then why aren't you also upbraiding Beth? Is a woman never to put forth an argument that a man is wrong about something? Never? I'd really like to know, is this forbidden? Or forbidden under certain circumstances? If so, it would be nice to know in advance that this rule is going to be enforced here before a person says anything at all. And if it's violated by a person who doesn't know the rules, wouldn't it be better to be friendly and polite about it than just come on laying down the law and insinuating an intent to disobey? I'd really like to know what I'm allowed to do.

I think a lot about scripture and Christian life. Am I not allowed ever to talk about these things from a position of having knowledge of my own about them? I'd really like to know, and the Biblical reasons for it. Am I not allowed to have studied a part of scripture and formed a clear opinion of it? I really want to know, is this forbidden? Does it have to be only for myself if in fact I've discovered what Paul actually said and I know he didn't talk only to me personally? If everything I'm doing here IS out of bounds BIBLICALLY, I'd certainly like to know it and obey the Bible.

Unfortunately this is not the thread for discussing it and I don't think I'm up to discussing it right now anyway, but if someone wanted to make a thread on the subject later on that would be welcome.

In closing I have to say, I abhor humanism and it is very painful to be accused of it. What have I done to deserve the accusation? Simply quoted commentaries? Is that all? I don't use the term "humanism" much but to me humanism is allowing human wisdom to contradict the Bible. I've spent a lot of time arguing for creation over evolution for instance, from a strict reading of Genesis, a 6000-year-old earth and a worldwide Flood some 4500 years ago. Some of those I've argued with support reading Genesis to make room for the possibility of evolution even though they regard themselves as Christians and for the most part have a good understanding of the gospel. Seems to me that's allowing worldly (humanistic?) concepts to determine what the Bible says, but I'm opposing them, not allowing them myself. I also think "humanism" probably refers to thinking there's room for psychological understanding of spiritual problems, but I argue that the Bible is sufficient.

I suspect there is a wrong kind of anti-intellectualism going on here. God gave us intellectual ability and like all our abilities it should be used in His service. The mere exercise of intellect is not against God, it depends completely on how it is used, and if I'm a "humanist" because I use my mind, I have to disagree, I use it in His service as far as I am able and understand. But maybe as a woman I'm not allowed to? I hope if anyone wants to discuss this you will think these things through prayerfully and carefully.