[George]

Originally Posted by jerry

When was the last time Jesus or one of the apostles made an ethnic joke? Just because your heart is obviously hardened doesn't make jokes like this acceptable to God or in line with His Word. When we are told to have our speach seasoned with salt, and let no corrupt words proceed from our mouths, you (or Ruckman) don't have a leg to stand on - no matter how much you try to justify it. It is not personal preference, it is sin.

Re: Post #89

Aloha brother Jerry,

I want to be clear: I do not do ethnic jokes (because I don't want to offend). On the other hand "pbiwolsky" is obviously of Polish origin and he didn't take offense - but some Polish people might, and that's why I don't personally do them, and you are right about the fact that the Lord and His Apostles didn't do them - so we should avoid them also.

The problem is perceptions: Brother Ruckman is of my dad's generation (The generation that went through the "Great Depression"; the generation that fought and won World War II - the last war the U.S. has won!), this was a generation that was "tough", "rough", and "hardened"; that endured hardships and deprivation that we can only imagine - not having ever endured such.

These are people who grew up in neighborhoods where ethnic jokes were common and practiced every day (some were meant to be humorous and others were "put downs"). This was a common practice, back then, and as such, I cut them some "slack". I don't approve of them or excuse them, but I don't go out of my way to condemn the person doing them - there are a lot worse sins that we "sanctified" Christians commit than telling an ethnic joke (such as: gossip, back-biting, lying, cheating, and railing. Or how about jealousy, envy, and hatred. Or the "good ole standby" - "universal" sin of COVETOUSNESS.) You will notice that the Lord wasn't nearly as hard on the people who committed the "sins of the flesh" as He was on those who committed the sins that I just listed - the sins of the HEART!

Does that excuse any of the "sins of the flesh" - of course not! But on the other hand, we better be carefull to remember (This is not meant to be personal - notice the WE?):

Matthew 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Or how about:

Luke 6:41 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but perceivest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.
43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

I look for "fruit" in a man's life and his ministry, I judge a man and his ministry by his "fruit" - not his "works" (that may be in the flesh); or his "words" (that may be offensive to some). If he can demonstrate "fruit" ("fruit of the Spirit" = Galatians 5:22-23), then I leave it up to God to judge his "faults" and his sins - unless his sins are so egregious ("works of the flesh = Galatians 5:19-21) that I must break fellowship with him.

Please note: harsh, rude, and tough speech are not included in the list, and neither do ethnic jokes make the list. Again, are ethnic jokes in poor taste - in today's super sensitive culture - yes. Is harsh, rude, and tough speech also a no-no? I would say it would depend on who it was directed at (See the Lord against the Pharisees & Scribes, etc.; Paul against heretics and false teachers, etc.)

Here in Hawaii Caucasians (Haoles) are in the minority and it makes for a very interesting situation. Hawaiians, Japanese, Chinese, Filipinos, Portuguese (are not considered Haoles), Caucasians, and "Mixed" make up the majority of the races here with a smattering of others from the Orient, Mexico, South America, etc.

When I get around my "Local" friends I hear ethnic jokes (about every race here) all of the time, but I don't personally do them with one exception, I make fun of myself (Caucasian) and other "Caucasians" - especially "Mainlanders" (all in fun of course) and my Local friends get a real "kick" out of the fact that I am willing to poke fun at myself or people like me.

If you lived here in Hawaii and if you were to be offended every time you would hear an ethnic joke - you would go "bonkers" (out of your mind). Sometimes I think we Christians get upset over things that the rest of the world "let slide", and at other times we overlook serious sins of the heart, especially in ourselves and in those we love.

Surprisingly, the lost often "get" what we Christians often miss: They too look for "fruit" in our lives and are not fooled by our "good works" or "fair speeches".