[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

Hmm.. I was preparing a post to show a major flaw in the opponents arguments, and then I realized the terrible truth ..

We don't know what are the opponents arguments, nor their text and version. You can read long articles that they write, and you will never find out what is the actual Bible (in their view). Amazing.

Now some claim the King James Bible is mistranslated, others not at all. Some claim that Psalm 12:6-7 have nothing to do with the preservation of the word of God. Some claim that limitation only for verse Psalm 12:7b. Some claim that Psalm 12:6 is only about God keeping one promise earlier in the verse. Some claim that the problem is not really translational, or even conceptual in the idea of preservation, simply our interpretation - applying the promise of Psalm 12 to the specific tangible, readable Bible in our hands, the King James Bible. And there are more variations on their themes.

So I realized that I had to understand what the specific opponent accepted as the text and I thought that might be fairly easy. Yet a review of the version babel and their articles shows something very different. You simply never know what they claim is the true Bible text and when it comes to their actual kvetch against the King James Bible, they are all over the map.

The opponents of Psalm 12:6-7 against the King James Bible as being the preserved word of God have a hodge-podge of translations with very different meanings, even on just the one fulcrum verse, Psalm 12:7.

So this post will be simply a review of ... who says what. Then we can try to unravel the various opponents confusions.

Psalm 12:6-7
The words of the LORD are pure words:
as silver tried in a furnace of earth,
purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Thus we read the pure Bible .. with 'them and them'.

The cornfuseniks read four very different major possibilities and then some other ones. No wonder they don't even know what position they are taking !

The following list is of course not complete. However it gives the picture.

Oppo Variety-Pack

Us and Us
Them and Us
Them and Him
Them and Them

Them and Each
Them and Me
Them and Us (paraphrase - them=needy)
Them and Them (paraphrase - them=Oppressed)

Here is the alphabet soup.

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US and US

HCSB - Holman Christian Standard Bible
You, Lord, will guard us;
You will protect us from this generation forever.

NIV - New International Version
O Lord, you will keep us safe
and protect us from such people forever.

NRSV - New Revised Standard Version
You, O Lord, will protect us;
you will guard us from this generation forever.

RSV - Revised Standard Version
Do thou, O LORD, protect us,
guard us ever from this generation.

GNT - Good News Translation
Keep us always safe, O Lord,
and preserve us from such people.

NCV - New Century Version
Lord, you will keep us safe;
you will always protect us from such people.

TEV - Today's English Version
Keep us always safe, O LORD,
and preserve us from such people.

Message (Paraphrase)
God, keep us safe from their lies,
From the wicked who stalk us with lies,

New Life Bible
O Lord, You will keep us.
You will keep us safe forever from the people of this day.

NAB - New American bible
LORD, protect us always; preserve us from this generation.

===

GREEK AND LATIN TEXTS - US & US

LXX (Brenton)
Thou, O Lord, shalt keep us,
and shalt preserve us, from this generation, and for ever.

Rheims
Thou, O Lord, wilt preserve us:
and keep us from this generation for ever.

==================================

THEM AND US

English Standard Version
You, O Lord, will keep them;
you will guard us* from this generation forever.
* Or guard him

Young's Literral
Thou, O Jehovah, dost preserve them,
Thou keepest us from this generation to the age.

Amplified
You will keep them and preserve them, O Lord;
You will guard and keep us from this [evil] generation forever.

JPS-1917
Thou wilt keep them, O LORD;
Thou wilt preserve us from this generation for ever.

Soncino
Thou wilt keep them, O LORD
Thou wilt preserve us from this generation for ever.

DSS Bible
You, O LORD, will protect them;
you will preserve us from this generation forever

==================================

THEM AND HIM

NASV - New American Standard
You, O LORD, will keep them;
You will preserve him from this generation forever.

EMPHASIZED - Rotherdam
Thou, O Yahweh, wilt keep them,
--Thou wilt guard him, from this generation unto times age-abiding.

GENEVA
Thou wilt keep them, O Lord:
thou wilt preserve him from this generation for ever.

JUDAICA PRESS
You, O Lord, shall guard them;
You shall guard him from this generation forever.

AINSWORTH
Thou Jehovah wilt keep them,
will preserve him * from this generation for ever.
ie. every one of them

==================================

THEM and EACH

JPS-1985 & 2004
You, O LORD, will keep them,
guarding * each from this age * evermore.
* Meaning of Heb. uncertain

==================================

THEM AND ME

Peshitta (Lamsa from Aramaic)
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD;
thou shalt preserve me and save me from this generation for ever.

==================================

THEM and US - (Paraphrase - Defining THEM as the needy)

TNIV - Today's New International Version
You, Lord, will keep the needy safe
and will protect us forever from the wicked

==================================

THEM and THEM -- (Paraphrase - Defining THEM as Oppressed)

NLT - New Living Translation
Therefore, LORD, we know you will protect the oppressed,
preserving them forever from this lying generation,

==================================

THEM AND THEM - (Similar to KJB, often with other weaknesses)

NKJV - New King James Version
You shall keep them, O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.

ASV - American Standard Version
Thou wilt keep them, O Jehovah,
Thou wilt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Webster
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

BBE = Bible in Basic English
You will keep them, O Lord,
you will keep them safe from this generation for ever.

ERV - English Revised Version
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD,
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Darby
Thou, Jehovah, wilt keep them,
thou wilt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Or 'him:' see end of ver. 5.

LITV - MKJV Jay Green Literal
You shall keep them, O Jehovah;
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.

NJB - New Jerusalem Bible
You, Yahweh, will watch over them,
you will protect them from that brood for ever.

World English Bible
You will keep them, Yahweh,
You will preserve them from this generation forever.

The Book of Tehillim - Moses Greenfield (1985)
Thou shalt keep them, O Lord,
thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Tehillim: Eis ratzon -Yaakov Yosef Iskowitz, (2004)
You, O Eternal, will guard them;
You will protect them from a generation such as this, forever.

Tehilllim Ohel Yoseph Yitzchok -Y.B. Marcus, Nissen Mangel and Eliyahu Touger (1994)
May You, O Lord, watch over them;
may You forever guard them from this generation,

In The Morning: Selected Psalms translated by Yaacov Dovid Shulman
You, God, guard them.
Keep them from this generation

==================================

In future posts I hope to highlight the slipperiness of the opposition multi-positions, and various contradictions. However for now, I just want to make it clear the babel version aspect of the cornfuseniks. Look at the most vocal opponents, and try to get a clear idea of what the word of God actually says (even before interpretation) and you will find .. mud.

By contrast, we can be most thankful for God's sure word.

Psalm 119:140
Thy word is very pure:
therefore thy servant loveth it.

Shalom,
Steven