[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

Interesting thread, a bit out of my normal bailiwick.

Originally Posted by Diligent

the obvious verse is:

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

This is another one of those verses that 5-point Calvinism doesn't want you to believe. According to Calvin, Paul got this one backwards. I prefer Paul over Calvin.

Hmm. So is it a native part of Calvinism that regeneration is totally distinct from and precedes faith ? I would be curious how they defend that in lieu of verses like Ephesians 1:13.

I noticed that the Calvin Commentary page uses a translation that does not have "after". Instead "by believing in which you are also sealed". However this still has believing preceding being sealed. Do they separate being sealed from regeneration ? Within the box of Tulps, how are the flowers handled ?

http://www.the-highway.com/Calvin_Eph5.html
The Fifth Sermon on the First Chapter - John Calvin

Perhaps the Christian exegesis becomes a bit thick and mushy (even obtuse) when it has a foundational weakness.

This paper makes some good points.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org...ed/ddregen.htm
Reformed Theology and Regeneration - David Dunlop

Shalom,
Steven