[CKG]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha CKG,

Your handling of my words is a huge disappointment to me. Please read what you did.
I said: "Paul contrasts "faith" and "works" in several of his Epistles" - NOT "Paul contrasts "the gift of faith” with works." as you so cleverly manipulated my words!

WHY do Christians DO THIS? WHY must you CHANGE what I said? I never said that "Paul contrasts the “gift of faith” with works" (you ADDED words to what I said). I very clearly said that "Paul contrasts "faith" and "works" in several of his Epistles, and then I went on to say "so it makes perfect sense" {for us} "to contrast the "GIFT" of "faith" with "works." If you don't understand what I was saying, don't CHANGE it to make it understandable to you (I am sure that there are many on the Forum that understand exactly what I said - and if you didn't, you should have asked me {like brother Winman} rather than manipulate my words). And for the record, I never made the "claim" that Paul ever used the term “gift of faith”.

Have you read ANY of Steve Rich's Posts? Have you taken any time to honestly research the other side of this issue? Or are you determined, at any cost, to push your point of view - even if it means twisting my words to suit your purpose?

Perhaps you didn't "mean" to CHANGE my words or twist, or wrest them, or take them out of context - but that is, in essence, what you did. I try real hard not to read "meaning" into the words of other people, or change their words to suit my own purposes, I would appreciate it, if, from now on, you would have the courtesy to do the same to me.

I know there is risk when you're sending emails or posting to a forum because you can't see the person you're "conversing" with so it is easy to be misunderstood so please believe me when I say it is not my intention to twist your words or manipulate what you've said. That's not who I am and I'm not interested in getting into personal attacks. Based on your posts I have gained much respect for you or as much as a person can get to know someone in such a forum. What I saw was:

{And by the way, the Apostle Paul contrasts "faith" and "works" in several of his Epistles, so it makes "perfect sense" to contrast the "GIFT" of "faith" with "works".}

I erroneosuly read your intentions so please forgive me if I have offended you. Having said that I see no benefit in carrying this thread any farther. You have what you believe on this matter and there are others you have referred to who believe that way and I have what I believe on this matter and there are others I could refer to and I don't think either one of us going to change. I see no need in this turning into a multi-page thread with us saying the same thing over and over and not coming to a resolution. This is a great forum and I don't want to be a smudge on it.

I do have a final thought, so please read, think about it and critique or respond as you see fit.

In Romans 3:20 Paul says that justification is not of works.
In Romans 3:27 Paul says that justification is not of works.
In Romans 3:28 Paul says that justification is apart from works.
In Romans 4:2,6 Paul says that justification is not of works.
In Romans 9:11 Paul says that election is not of works.
In Romans 9:32 Paul says that righteousness is not of works.
In Romans 11:6 Paul says that election is not of works.
In Galatians 2:16 Paul says that justification is not of works.
In 2 Timothy 1:9 Paul says that God's salvation and calling are not according to works.
In Titus 3:5 Paul says that salvation is not of works.
If Ephesians 2:9 means that salvation is not of works, this would be in harmony with all of these above passages. That salvation is not of works is repeatedly taught by Paul, but in no other place in the new testament does Paul ever say that "faith is not of works." Again and again Paul says that salvation (justification) is not of works, but he never says that faith is not of works.