[Paladin54]

Originally Posted by jerry

Where do you draw the line? The same place the Bible does. If it is just preference, then it doesn't matter. However, the passages states that those who disobey on this issue are an abomination to God. Trace out the word abomination - where it specifically states something is an abomination to God (not to others - such as shepherds being an abomination to the Egyptians or unclean foods being an abomination to the nation of Israel). Then see if ANY of those abominable things are now acceptable.

Is God now pleased with divorce? Is prostituting your daughters now acceptable? Is the occult now okay to practice? Is it permissable now to commit incest, sodomy, and other kinds of immorality? Does God now want you to pray to Him and offer spiritual sacrifices with a wicked heart? Is pride now considered a good thing? Does God now overlook the using of unjust weights?

Of course, the answer of all of these is no. God's moral nature has not changed - and if something was abominable to Him in the OT - it still is. Trace the word out and see what else He finds abominable.

Brother, none of us are question the validity of this commandment against an abomination regarding today, we are simply in doubt as to what is the judge of woman's clothes or men's clothes.

I have no intention of breaking God's law, here, especially making an abomination, my barrier in understanding is how does a man know what a woman's clothes are if he is born into a society where the customs is different.

For those who do not have the law, they have their God-given conscience (Romans, everybody knows in their heart that murder is wrong, it's just that one's culture clouds one's conscience), but if you are born into a society where a certain dress is what men wear normally, how would you know that this is cross-dressing, an abomination under the sun?

That's why I believe it is important to study out the history of a garment. Not what a particular culture says about clothing though.

I still say, because I am not convicted any other way, that as long as men are not putting on makeup to look like a woman and as long as women are not flattening their chest to get a man figure, then they are not doing anything wrong.

(Good discussion btw...)

Hey jerry I searched out the different abominations that God had in the OT. I believe they all exist except one. The food diet that was set up for the Jews. Now you can say that this was meant only for the Jews, but in Duet. 22:5 He is also only speaking to the Jews on what to do and not do.

Lev 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the osprey,
Lev 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
Lev 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
Lev 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckoo, and the hawk after his kind,
Lev 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
Lev 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier-eagle,
Lev 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
Lev 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.


Now in Acts 10 we see that God gave Peter meat to eat that was considered unclean because it says all manner of the fowls of the air. That includes the unlcean as well as the clean. I believe this was one of God's ways where he started showing Peter that we are no longer under the law. The food diet was a moral or principle to God in the OT, but I believe He has changed His viewpoint on it.

Act 10:11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
Act 10:12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
Act 10:13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
Act 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

We all eat fish today, does that mean we are all abominable towards the Lord according to the following passage?

Lev 11:10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
Lev 11:11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.
Lev 11:12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

My question is if in these abominations God changed His viewpoint, then did He change His viewpoint of a woman wearing a man's clothing as an abomination, because He included this abomination with all the other morals and principles that they didn't do back in the day, but we have accepted them today?

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by jerry

I presented my convictions and conclusions on the issue - an application, if you will, of what I believe that verse is talking about.

Brother, I certainly agree with you that when people do what the verse describes, it is an abomination. And I did not intend to call you a Pharisee -- if my words came across that way, I'm sorry.

Thanks for your clarification.

In regards to eating unclean foods, God very clearly states several times that this was an abomination to them - not to God.

Leviticus 11:10-13 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you. And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

Leviticus 11:20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

Leviticus 11:41-42 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten. Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.

A couple of verses don't specify who is in view - but the overall passage does various times.

Great Point, Jerry!

good point! thanks!

I society we have Both
Men and women wear
pant! It doesn't take
you to have PhD to
Know there is cross
dressing there!!
What about that??
(Don't intend to change topic; Just challenge!!)

For consideration: what is the universal symbols for men and women on bathroom doors around the world? Man with round head (indicating short hair) and pants, and woman with different/longer hair and a skirt or dress.