[LindaR]

It is true that the saved will be judged, but that judgment will be prior to, or at beginning of, the Millennial reign.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (2 Corinthians 5:10)

But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (Romans 14:10)

At this judgment, the saved will be judged for their works...

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (1 Corinthians 3:13)

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (1 Corinthians 3:14)

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Corinthians 3:15)

Man is judged at the Judgment/Bema seat of Christ for his works, the deeds he has done in his body...not for his sins.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:5)

At the end of the thousand years, Satan will be loosed to wreak havoc on the saints. Satan and his dominions will surround the saints. At this time, God will rain fire down from heaven and devour them. Question: Who is being devoured at this point in time? Answer: Satan and the workers of unrighteousness.

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:7-10)

After this event, Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone and "the dead, both small and great" stand before God to be judged. See question and answer above for who "the dead" are. It is obviously the unrighteous dead who are being judged and not the saved. One who faces judgment at the Great White Throne has NO hope of eternal life in Christ. That one is LOST eternally.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Revelation 20:11-13)

Jesus Himself said that the saved would not be judged at the Great White Throne judgment:

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48)

Those who reject Christ are judged at the Great White Throne judgment.

For a great sermon on this topic, I recommend Judgment is Coming by Dr. David Peacock (Bible Believers Baptist Church, Jacksonville, FL)

[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by LindaR

After this event, Satan is cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone and "the dead, both small and great" stand before God to be judged. See question and answer above for who "the dead" are. It is obviously the unrighteous dead who are being judged and not the saved. One who faces judgment at the Great White Throne has NO hope of eternal life in Christ. That one is LOST eternally.

Sister, I beg to differ.

It is not ‘obvious’ at all. It’s not stated that only the unrighteous dead will be judged.

When will the righteous from the Millenium be judged?

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (Revelation 20:11-13)

Here it says that the dead, small and great, would stand before God.

It does not say the unrighteous dead, it just says ‘dead’.

Then it says that the book of life was opened, as well as other ‘books’. The dead were judged out of the books.

And the verse you left out: “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15) ... which, by its wording, seems to indicate that some were found in the book of life.

So, I would not assume that ‘dead’ means ‘unrighteous dead’. It’s not there.

Jesus Himself said that the saved would not be judged at the Great White Throne judgment:

Those who reject Christ are judged at the Great White Throne judgment.

Yes, but it doesn’t say ONLY those who rejected Christ will be there.

To say otherwise, sister, is to add to God’s words, imho.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Sister, I beg to differ.

It is not ‘obvious’ at all. It’s not stated that only the unrighteous dead will be judged.

When will the righteous from the Millenium be judged?

Here it says that the dead, small and great, would stand before God.

It does not say the unrighteous dead, it just says ‘dead’.

Then it says that the book of life was opened, as well as other ‘books’. The dead were judged out of the books.

And the verse you left out: “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15) ... which, by its wording, seems to indicate that some were found in the book of life.

So, I would not assume that ‘dead’ means ‘unrighteous dead’. It’s not there.


Yes, but it doesn’t say ONLY those who rejected Christ will be there.

To say otherwise, sister, is to add to God’s words, imho.

Who will be ruling and reigning in the Millennial Kingdom? Why, the Lord Jesus Christ! And what does the Word of God call Him? The Righteous Judge.

Christ, during the Millennial reign will judge during His reign on this earth. The righteous of the Millennial Kingdom will be judged during that Millennial reign.

At the end of that thousand years, satan will be loosed, Those who satan convinces to follow him will be devoured with fire from heaven. Then they (the dead small and great) will face judgment at the Great White Throne of God. It is the unrighteous who face that judgment, not the righteous. The unrighteous are raised to face God's wrath.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Here it says that the dead, small and great, would stand before God. It does not say the unrighteous dead, it just says ‘dead’.

Isn't the key word here "dead"? You are not suggesting the dead, have a second chance at receiving the gift of eternal life, are you?

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:11-15).

[LindaR]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Isn't the key word here "dead"? You are not suggesting the dead, have a second chance at receiving the gift of eternal life, are you?

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:11-15).

In the 34 years that I've been saved, this is the FIRST time I have ever heard that there will be some who will be going to heaven after the GWT judgment. When I first saw this teaching here, it did appear to me that what it was teaching was a "second chance" after rejecting Christ....all "new" doctrine to me.

[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by Forrest

Isn't the key word here "dead"? You are not suggesting the dead, have a second chance at receiving the gift of eternal life, are you?

No.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' who are being judged are headed for the lake of fire.

The book of life is opened, yes?

It says 'whosoever' wasn't found written in the book of life...which leaves the possibility that some were found in the book of life.

We shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' are 'unrighteous'.

I am willing to listen to Scriptural reasons why you or others might believe that only the unrighteous will face God at the WTJ.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

No.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' who are being judged are headed for the lake of fire.

The book of life is opened, yes?

It says 'whosoever' wasn't found written in the book of life...which leaves the possibility that some were found in the book of life.

We shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' are 'unrighteous'.

I am willing to listen to Scriptural reasons why you or others might believe that only the unrighteous will face God at the WTJ.

Thanks.

Actually, it does not leave the possibility that some are in the book. I can walk into a police station and say 'whoever in here has ever been to prison step forward.' How many do you think would step forward?

These here in Revelation 20 are the dead that were devoured by fire from heaven sent from God. Read the Scripture again, it is the wicked who are devoured... it is the wicked who are dead, not the righteous.

Do you think God sent fire to kill both the righteous and the wicked in this passage? Scripture sure doesn't indicate it.

The dead being judged are the wicked ones who were encompassing the saints and the beloved city... not a single righteous person among them.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Here Am I

No.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' who are being judged are headed for the lake of fire.

The book of life is opened, yes?

It says 'whosoever' wasn't found written in the book of life...which leaves the possibility that some were found in the book of life.

We shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' are 'unrighteous'.

I am willing to listen to Scriptural reasons why you or others might believe that only the unrighteous will face God at the WTJ.

Thanks.

It seems to me there are key words and phrases that put this in context. I'll highlight them.

"...him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them....the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books....And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they [death and hell] were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. [For many, the first death is physical death that occurs before ever receiving Christ. These people will experience the second death.] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:11-15).

Since death and hell were cast into the lake of fire, we can only conclude that death and hell clearly represent the lost. This is narrow and exact teaching. Death and hell are those who are not found written in the book of life. The ones who stand before Him that sat on the throne, are specifically "death" and "hell". In my understanding, if "the second death" included the saved, God would have made a distinction somewhere in scripture.

If I might make an interjection...

A certain gentleman in Pensacola, commenting on Revelation 20:12-15, has this to say:

"There are saved people at this judgment also. (See Rev. 11:17-18.) The saved people that are judged at this judgment are people who were saved by faith and works in the Tribulation, and saved by works in the Millennium. They are judged 'according to their works,' and some of them are found 'written in the book of life.'"

Commenting on Rev. 11:18, he says:

"Now,you've been taught (if you've been taught at all) that there are no saved people at the Great White Throne Judgment. You've been taught that this is the judgment of the unsaved dead only, and there are no saved people there. This is an error. You can see it immediately by the fact that there are 'rewards' passed out at the White Throne Judgment. Rev. 11:18 is not the Judgment Seat of Christ where New Testament Christians are rewarded; it is the Great White Throne Judgment where 'his servants the prophets' are rewarded ... The judgment of Church-Age saints takes place in Heaven, during the Tribulation. But this judgment (Rev. 11) takes place at the end of the Millennium, yet there are saved people there. (The word 'saints' throws the expositors into a panic; they think the word 'saints' applies to Church-Age saints, as Paul uses the word in Romans 1; 1 Corinthians 1; etc.)"

I agree with him, and with Here Am I. I'd give you a lengthier quote, but I'm not very adept at balancing a book on my lap while typing; I blush to admit that I have to look at the keyboard to type!

(The Bible-Believer's Commentary on Revelation, Peter S. Ruckman.)

[George]

Originally Posted by Here Am I

No.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' who are being judged are headed for the lake of fire.

The book of life is opened, yes?

It says 'whosoever' wasn't found written in the book of life...which leaves the possibility that some were found in the book of life.

We shouldn't assume that all the 'dead' are 'unrighteous'.

I am willing to listen to Scriptural reasons why you or others might believe that only the unrighteous will face God at the WTJ.

Thanks.

Aloha sister Here Am I,

A word of warning sister: - the comments of BC and LindaR are not to be relied on. However, brother Forrest is asking a legitimate question. And I think your statement covers the issue.

This "problem" stems from the teaching that "Salvation has always been the SAME" from the creation of Adam up until the Great White Throne Judgment (in every Dispensation and under every Covenant of God.).

If BC's and LindaR's supposition ("that Salvation has always been the same") is right then their judgment on this issue is correct. HOWEVER, if "Salvation" in the Millennial reign of Christ is dependent on "works", then you are correct!

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

{What are the "books" for - if everyone is going to the Lake of Fire? What is "the book of life" doing there - if everyone is going to the Lake of Fire i.e. "The Second Death"?} Salvation today is dependent upon one thing: Have you believed on and received the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour? If the answer is YES - your as good as "in the DOOR"; if the answer is NO - your as sure to go to hell as you are that the Lord Jesus Christ lived and died for your sins. WORKS have NOTHING to do with us. BUT, what about the Millennial saints?

In the Millennium, where does FAITH come into play when the Lord of Glory is ruling and reigning on the throne of David, and you have millions of glorified saints all over the world, ruling and reigning with Him? [Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.] Where is the "Faith", when millions of carbon copies of Jesus Christ are going to be present on this world, ruling and reigning with the Lord of Glory, who will rule and reign from His Throne in Jerusalem?

If the people in the Millennium can SEE the Lord Jesus Christ (and millions of glorified saints) Just exactly where is FAITH if: [Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.]

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Why is the Lord looking in the "book of life" - looking for someone, if they ALL are already condemned? "Whosoever was not found" - can we except the concept that the Lord is looking in the "book of life", and all that He is going to find is DEATH? I trow not.

Now, if a fellow Christian believes like BC and LindaR, I am not going to fight with him (or her). However, if someone insists that I am "wrong", then I might take issue with them and present my side of the issue and defend my belief.

I do not believe that this issue is a "Fellowship" BREAKER - unless someone becomes belligerent and obnoxious over it.