[Gord]

Originally Posted by George

I refuse to waste my time trying to convince someone, who already "thinks" that he has ALL of the answers! [Proverbs 16:22 Understanding is a wellspring of life unto him that hath it: but the instruction of fools is folly.]

Wise counsel for us all, thank you George. The ratio between ears and mouth is still 2:1, so listening should take that same ratio to speaking, that also helps in wisdom growth.

Originally Posted by Levite-7

hi~

i feel compelled to contribute to this subject, as it is of great importance. granted, i'm new to this community, but we are believers in the LORD Jesus Christ ~ brethren. so with that said, something to consider. it is truth, the LORD does not change, & the whole Word & every word written in the scriptures & transcribed is from the LORD in heaven, inspired from the holy prophets & apostles that brought forth is from the will of God. in relation between both testaments, the Law still stands but the sacrificial system is null & void because Jesus Christ became the sacrificial offering for sin. His sacrifice on the cross brought an end to the sacrificial system & His words fulfill the Law, thus His -one- sacrifice is the gaurantee that the Law stands. at the last day, the earth shall be judged by the Law & just like the Passover, we who accept the LORD Jesus Christ the Law shall passover as our sins are forever purged from the sanctuary of the LORD's Tabernacle in heaven.

words by myself would be of arrogance, so let me pull up biblical support ~ of a truth, here is one & perhaps the only one needed. from the Gospel According to St. Matthew 5:17 - 18:

5:17 Thinke not that I am come to destroy the law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say vnto you, *Till heaven and earth passe, one iote or one title, shall be in no wise passe from the law, till all be fulfilled.

~levite-7

What I'm trying to say, is that GOd is the same, but the testaments are different.

For example, in the OT, GOD promoted swearing

Deuteronomy 6:13
Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.

In the NT, GOd forbids swearing

Matthew 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:


Yet, both in the NT and OT GOd is the same.

Originally Posted by LindaR

From Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible:



The entire Bible applies to Christians...all 66 books from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

in the OT GOd promoted swearing (Deuteronomy 6:13) in the NT God forbids swearing (Matthew 5:34).... So which verse should I obey?

I think that 2 Timothy 3:16-17 refers to the scripture of the New Covenant, or the NEW Testament.

[Here Am I]

Hey wwjd.usa! Here you are!

I answered the questions you asked me, here:

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515

Are you going to answer my questions any time soon? I'd appreciate it!

Originally Posted by LindaR

When Paul wrote this epistle to Timothy, all they had was the Old Testament...therefore the Old Testament does apply to Christians. However, church doctrine does not come from the Old Testament. This does not mean we simply throw out the Old Testament and say it doesn't apply to Christians today. There are many, many precious promises in the Old Testament which are applicable to Christians today.

The way I understand it, is that The OT does not apply to Christians. However Christians need to use the OT for examples.

For ex. The Israelites sinned before GOd, and God punished the Israelites.

Even though the OT laws don't apply to us, we should use this example and says to ourselves, "God punished people for sinning in the OT, and therefore God will punish us if we sin in the NT"

Originally Posted by chette777

Scott,

Though there is harmony of the OT and NT of which I have never said there wasn't. the point was what was for Christians today. that is a doctrinal issue of what is applicable for practical daily obediance to the word of God. Paul did not teach a Sabbath day observance but the OT does. just another place where Paul and the OT don't agree doctrinally. wouldn't you agree?

i stated that as long as the OT teaching that is applicable to a christian is in agreement with the teaching of Paul's teaching on any given subject it is for the christian today as applicable life practice.

We, unlike the Thessonicans, have a completed Bible whereby we can compare scripture with scripture. I understand your agruement. but we are not dicussing Thessolonicans here were are talkiing about Christian's who today have a completed Bible.

As far a Paul's teaching to Timothy he is not saying ALL Scripture is Doctrinally applicable to a Christian's today. you are reading that into the verse. some of it is for correction and instruction and admonishment.

the discussion I took on was for Doctrinal application for the believer TODAY not in AD50 or so. but 2008

I am much older than you being 50 this next year. you would do well to learn 1 Timothy 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;

so many try to cover their sinful words and deeds by saying they are "in Love". This is not the first time you have used the "in Love" statement with me. I had a man once who deceived and lied to my face and then write me later saying all he had done was "in love". so those words carry very little wieght with me.

as far as exalting myself above you. surely I made no attempt to do so. I only questioned your motives for arguing using a statement that was not 100% correct.

Let us stop this behavior now and move on. these will be my last words to you on this subject.

That fine, I will be 56 in January in case that matters, I do believe the gospel is found in the OT herein we should not think it would disagree with the scripture written by Paul. Certainly Jesus has fulfilled the law and we are not under the law but again every word of the OT is still appiclable and not to be disregard in anyway.
I may state that I have never rebuked anyone let alone you.
I may disagree with you on several items, but does not disavow my love in Christ for you and your work in the ministery.
Keep up the good fight, and God Bless you.

Originally Posted by LindaR

If all the Old Testament didn't agree with Paul doctrinally, why did he quote it? Why did Jesus quote the Old Testament? The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. We are not living under the Old Testament, but that does not mean we are to discard it, for it is the foundation from which the New Testament was written.

Jesus, Paul and other had to get the doctrines somewhere. They picked out and kept the good doctrines, while leaving the bad doctrines behind. We ourselves can not alter the doctrines of Jesus and disciples. If we do alter the doctrines, then we can end up in Hell.

Jesus and disciples have stated which doctrines are good. The doctrines that they have not stated, we should not follow.

Originally Posted by LindaR

And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, (Luke 24:44-45)

Jesus did fulfil the OT, and therefore we do should not follow it anymore. The only doctrines of the OT that we need to follow are the doctrines that are mentioned in the NT.

For example, "Love your neighbor as thyself" is both in the NT and OT. We need to follow this, even though this is a doctrine of the OT. The reason that we need to follow this, is because it is mentioned in the NT.

Originally Posted by PB1789

<snipped for brevity>

To the Thread Question/Title. Yes,Yes,Yes, {Yea Verily!}

The letters of your screen name ask a question. What would Jesus do? He would NOT take a meat clever to the Word of God and hack and cut. What Jesus WOULD do is/was quote and refer constantly to the Written Word as we now have it from Genesis to Malachi!

true, even thought Jesus has quoted many scripture from the OT, he has reversed many scripture. Like (Deuteronomy 6:13) says it's ok to swear and (Matthew 5:34) forbids swearing. So what I'm saying, is that Jesus has kept some scripture in the NT and taught the opposite of another scripture.

For this reason, i believe that since we have the comlete NT, we need to follow only the NT. As I said, the reason is because NT cancels many things of the OT.

Originally Posted by PB1789

Please turn to Matthew 5:17,18 and read those verses. Also look up a verse that has the words "millstone" and "sea" in it...think on that passage before adopting the "meat clever" hack and cut theology.

Well, how do you explain (Matthew 5:31-36)?
Jesus fulfilled the OT, and therefore, we do not have to follow the OT doctrines. That's the way I understand it.

Originally Posted by PB1789

The Lord God Himself gave us those 10 Commandments from Mt. Sinai,,,written into the stone tablets with HIS finger! Not David or anyone else. The Creator of the Universe took time to communicate to us humans and NO one has the right to tell you (or anyone) to disregard HIS words!

True, and yet the NT says cancels one of the Ten Commandments - the sabath day. (Colossians 2:16-17)

Please explain what you are trying to say through this URL

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

Originally Posted by atlas

George,


You post is good advice for all of us. Sadly I fell into the " war debate " with WWJD and it was a total waste of time other than Luck reminding of the Bible passages I was looking for but had forgotten where they were. Some folks on here very near cult beliefs. Like sinless perfection and other such unsound doctrines. It is best to let most of these post pass by with out reply, however once you reply I feel as if you must carry it to the end and finish what you have started. It is best not to start in the first place. If nobody replies to crazy post maybe the post will die a fast death. I myself have avoided this topic for this reason wanting this worthless post to die. We can not help what others post, but we can help how and what we reply if we reply. Maybe we just need to stop the replies and that may be the best thing to do.


Atlas

I asking you for a favor.

Please pray for both yourself and myself. When you pray, ask God to uncover his will to both you and me.

Also, when you pray, ask God to either change my point of view, or your point of view. As God to change our point of view to what his will is.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Scott Simons

That fine, I will be 56 in January in case that matters, I do believe the gospel is found in the OT herein we should not think it would disagree with the scripture written by Paul. Certainly Jesus has fulfilled the law and we are not under the law but again every word of the OT is still appiclable and not to be disregard in anyway.
I may state that I have never rebuked anyone let alone you.
I may disagree with you on several items, but does not disavow my love in Christ for you and your work in the ministery.
Keep up the good fight, and God Bless you.

Correct, Jesus did fulfill all of the law. Yet, Jesus changed the law completely arround. We actually break the NT if we follow certain parts of the OT (Deuteronomy 6:13) and (Matthew 5:34)