[peopleoftheway]

The artwork on Chick tracts is outstanding, as is the message, that is until you get to the end of the tract and as a means to salvation you must be willing to turn from sin

Brother Tim, I mailed them Priority Mail - you should have them in a day or two. It is not a big box - but enough for an average night of kids on Halloween. And there are some Halloween tracts plus a Chick tract wallet.

[Josh]

Originally Posted by atlas

You can get all kinds of good free tracts from Fellowship Tract League.

They're in my town! They hold a wonderful capmeeting every May.

peopleoftheway, very interesting post...

this past weekend following our Way of the Master Basic Course at my church we had a discussion about repentance... namely - can a person be "willing to turn from sin" before they are born again. This was similar to another discussion at the end of last week on this board.

What's interesting is that Ray Comfort and Jack Chick agree on this definition ("a turning away from sin") of repentance... Even more interesting is that in Sam Waldron's exposition of the 1689 2nd London Confession he uses the same definition as well.

My pastor, a Ruckman supporter, does not like that definition at all. He would be in agreement with you all. He made the reasonable argument that how can a lost person "turn from sin" until they are born again. And a person is not born again until they place their faith in Christ. He even commented that he did not "turn away from sin" until after his conversion.

As I thought about the posts from Luke and others and the various definitions of repentance, I came a conclusion on something... And I would be interested to hear people's opinions...

One can only hold a definition of "turn away from sin" for repentance if they are a Calvinist. Reason being, a Calvinist places regeneration before repentance/faith in the ordo salutis. Therefore, from the Calvinistic perspective repentance is an evangelical grace given by God to a regenerated person. Whereas, the non-Calvinist cannot define repentance to mean a "turning away from sin" because the unregenerate heart would never do so. Therefore, the non-Calvinist would say that a person changes their mind about Jesus and places their faith in Christ, then they are born-again after which they can repent (turn away from sin)... Does this make sense?

By the way, for those not familiar with the ordo salutis, regeneration and repentance/faith occur for practical purposes at very very nearly same time. There is no "gap" of time between regeneration and repentance/faith. The only reason for seperating them is for theological discussion purposes.

For more info on the Ordo Salutis go here => http://www.theopedia.com/Ordo_salutis

So why is my post above useful? Well, a debate about Lordship salvation versus Free Grace (or Moderate-Free Grace) is really just an argument over Calvinism. No rational thinking non-Calvinist would ever hold to Lordship salvation. While no rational thinking Calvinist would ever hold to Moderate-Free Grace. Rather, these positions are the result of the much larger theologicial systems of Calvinism and non-Calvinism. Therefore, to have any discussion on the ideas of Lordship salvation or Free Grace (or Moderate-Free Grace) apart from the larger discussion of Calvinism is pointless. Any thoughts?

For some more information on regeneration preceding faith...

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshol.../sproul01.html

[Brother Tim]

Brethren, there is a vast difference between being "willing to turn from sin" and "turning from sin".

The unregenerate heart is never willing to turn from sin.

[Brother Tim]

Since you are the one who desires clear Scriptural proof, perhaps you might respond likewise.

John 6
63.It is the spirit that quickeneth ; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64.But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65.And he said , Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.