[Biblestudent]

That's why sometimes one wonders who the real "ultras" are?

[Stvvv1611]

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

Brother Easy E,

WATER BAPTISM as received and practiced by Paul and delivered to the church:
Acts 16:15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Paul DID baptize, but he was not sent to baptize, as John the Baptist and the Twelve were sent to baptize. Mr. 1:4; Mt 28:18-20. The gospel preached by John the Baptist and the Twelve did include baptism, Mr 1:4; Mr 16:16; Ac 2:38; but Paul's preaching does not include it 1 Cor. 15:1-4; 1:17. Paul, however, gave water baptism as one of the local church "ordinances" (1 Cor. 11:2).
[COLOR="Blue"][B]

Hello brother Biblestudent,

It is virtually impossible to keep up with all the threads and posts on this forum! My time for such is very limited, but occasionally I’ll hurriedly pop in and out on some of the threads that catch my attention and such was the case when spotting your response to Luke and Easy E concerning understanding dispensations. On top of being delighted to have found such a web site in support of the KJV, I’m tickled to see so many in this forum that sees Pauline distinction… such as in your case. Obviously, there will be differences even among those that see the uniqueness of Paul’s ministry and message.

Our positions are very similar on Paul. In fact I will say that they were identical at one time, but with just a little variation today. I have some questions concerning your position that baptism with water is yet an ordinance today.

For argument sake… let’s say that baptism is an ordinance today. I am very curious as to what you do in your church in regards to administering this ordinance. I’ve been around long enough to know why something is done in view of what is done, but since your position is different, from most, in that you thoroughly understand the fact that others were sent and Paul was not and yet he did baptize with water, I can then only guess at what you practice.

I hope you don’t mind me asking these questions and am sure that others coming across this thread will benefit from the fact they too may need to understand any difference between those who were sent to baptize from he who wasn’t and yet still did and what are any distinctions. Hope that last sentence made sense.

Since I’m looking for ‘what’ and not ‘why’ your response to each question can be short; perhaps most of them in a word. Maybe after your response I will have a ‘why’ question.

1. Who in your church administers this ordinance? I’m looking for an office here if applicable.

2. Do you administer this ordinance immediately upon one’s profession of faith?

3. Which baptismal ‘formula’ (in whose name) do you administer this ordinance?

4. How (mode) do you administer this ordinance?

5. Do you require this ordinance for your church membership?

6. Do you accept another professing Christian into membership regardless of how (mode) they were baptized and what denomination they come from?

Thanks brother!

Stvvv1611
2 Timothy 2:15

PS Oh… I may have some fun with you on Paul ‘re-baptizing’ in Acts 19

In my searchings, I have found different views of many different issues.
But, I must say, that in the process of searching, the Holy Spirit has taught me allot, but not before taking me on a ride through all those different views.

You see, in order to learn anything, we must be treated to an opposing view in order to see the differences of things , thereby which, we can make a decision on the matter.

If we have been instructed all of our lives on only one way of believing, than we have learned nothing.

But when we venture out of that envelope, box, we begin to learn.

I said all that to set up my next statement.

Dispensations, is a term denoting, in my opinion, a departure from the norm in that different sections of time are divided into letters to, such as to each earth age.

In other words, somethings pertained to one earth age and not to another.

All well and a good study because in learning about it just increases our knowledge and either helps us move on or we get stuck on it.

Frankly, I moved on to find what I believe to be an understanding which fits the scope of Gods work in mankind.

I would not bind myself to anyone belief until I would have looked at as many as I could first, and in prayer, seek Gods help in understanding.

One thing is of a surety, and that is if one places ones trust in Jesus, we have a solid foundation of which there can be no shaking.

Peace>>>AJ

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by Stvvv1611

1. Who in your church administers this ordinance? I’m looking for an office here if applicable.

2. Do you administer this ordinance immediately upon one’s profession of faith?

3. Which baptismal ‘formula’ (in whose name) do you administer this ordinance?

4. How (mode) do you administer this ordinance?

5. Do you require this ordinance for your church membership?

6. Do you accept another professing Christian into membership regardless of how (mode) they were baptized and what denomination they come from?

1. In my church, the pastor administers the ordinance.
2. We administer this ordinance after a person is saved and is willing to be baptized.
3. We baptize in the "name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". Others baptize in the "name of Jesus".
4. We baptize by immersion.
5. We require this ordinance for church membership.
6. If they understood salvation before they were baptized by immersion, we accept them into membership.

[QUOTE=Greektim;4392]I hope you didn't mean what you said here, Luke. These kind of statements are what give Dispo's a bad name. The Bible never teaches 2 ways of salvation. Nor is that a teaching propagated in Dispensationalism.

Originally Posted by Greektim

Salvation is always by grace through faith no matter the dispensation.

That is not exactly accurate. Because People have not been saved the same way through all time. Yes God has always used grace, but it is what goes with faith that changes. In the OT, Especially during the time of Law, from moses to the cross, Salvation was Faith plus works(hence the sacrificing of animals for forgiveness of sins), now during the Curch age, from Calvary to the Rapture, we are in an age of grace, which is Salvation of grace through faith, during this time, you can not earn salvation, were as in the OT, you had to have works, plus faith. But during the tribulation, it will once again be a Salvation by faith and works system, I don't fully understand it but I know the Bible says so, and then during the mellenium it will be only works, because faith will not be required because the Lord Jeus will be ruling in Jeruselum.
As far as Dispensationalism, I recomend you read a book by Clarence Larken, called Dispensational truth. He wrote this in the 20's and it is very good. Brother Larken backes everything up with Scripture and I haven't found any contridictions with what he teaches and with what the Scriptures say. I am a Pre-millennialist which means that I believe that we are pre Millennium, and also pre-tribulation, there is also A-Millennialism, and also Post-Millennialists, Post believe that we are after the Millennium while A-Millennalists believe that the Millennium which is a general time, and not actually a kingdome. Of course if you read Revelation 19, God clearly states that it will be a kingdome, a phisical actuall kingdom.
I hope this helps Luke, now realize that even Pre-Millennialism isn't perfect, but it hold alot more than does A- or Post Millennialism.
Have a Good day in the Lord,
Josh

Joshjefflawn,

If we were to try to understand the reason for the consequences in the creation of humanity, we would understand that all fall under those consequences regardless of race, color or religion.

That is the first creation as you well pointed out as under the law.

But now and as 2,000 plus years ago, a new creation begun under grace, again as you pointed it out.

The new creation corrects the conditions or the consequences initiated by the creation of humanity, mainly death in separation from God.

This new creation is a new Adam, a body that God the Father chose by which all humanity could fall under and receive grace for salvation of their souls.

There can be but one body only, of which is made up of many membered bodies and Jesus being the head of that body.

If we can comprehend all that in faith, then there is no other way for salvation,and one in which is an irrevocable and permanent condition .

Once we are born again, as in the second Adam, the new creation, we are or we become new creatures.

We can not, let me state again, we can not become unborn, once we are born again, because salvation is not dependent on our faith, works, but in Gods faith granted us for salvation.

It is a gift.

The gift is: For us to be able to exercise the image of God (Meaning, having the ability to exercise free will, good and evil) without the separation of eternal damnation.

Only God could have given us that ability and to have taken away the penalty of being separate from Him, by giving us a vehicle to become one with Him. (Jesus)

Peace>>>AJ

First the reason we are in the state that we are is because Eve was decieved, and Adam rebelled againsed God. (by the way, that senario is a type of christ, Adam a [a type of christ] gives him self for Eve [a type of the church] dies and then reunites with Eve outside of Eden). After that man could no longer speak to God directly because man because we were tainted by sin.
Then God continued to try to deal with man in new ways, first he tried dealing with man by dealing with his concience, at first it worked well, but it ultimitly ended in the total apostasy and ended in the flood.
Then after the flood to the Tower of Bable, God delt with man through human government, and again, at first man did well, but again it ended in total apostasy and God had to divid man at the Tower of Bable, then we have God using the Patriarcs, from Abraham, to Joesoph, but again ends in apostacy when the children of Israiel become slaves. Then God decides to deal with man by the Law, from Moses at the Mount of Zion, and lasted untill total apostacy at the Cross at Calvary. When Jesus gave his life on the cross, and rose from the dead, and then after the asention, God began to deal with man by grace. As you see every dispensation since the gargen of Eden, first begane perfect, but ends in total apostacy. The same will be for the age of Grace, at the rapture.
That is Pre Millenialism in a nut shell.
I hope that helps.

Originally Posted by joshjefflawn

First the reason we are in the state that we are is because Eve was decieved, and Adam rebelled againsed God. (by the way, that senario is a type of christ, Adam a [a type of christ] gives him self for Eve [a type of the church] dies and then reunites with Eve outside of Eden). After that man could no longer speak to God directly because man because we were tainted by sin.
Then God continued to try to deal with man in new ways, first he tried dealing with man by dealing with his concience, at first it worked well, but it ultimitly ended in the total apostasy and ended in the flood.
Then after the flood to the Tower of Bable, God delt with man through human government, and again, at first man did well, but again it ended in total apostasy and God had to divid man at the Tower of Bable, then we have God using the Patriarcs, from Abraham, to Joesoph, but again ends in apostacy when the children of Israiel become slaves. Then God decides to deal with man by the Law, from Moses at the Mount of Zion, and lasted untill total apostacy at the Cross at Calvary. When Jesus gave his life on the cross, and rose from the dead, and then after the asention, God began to deal with man by grace. As you see every dispensation since the gargen of Eden, first begane perfect, but ends in total apostacy. The same will be for the age of Grace, at the rapture.
That is Pre Millenialism in a nut shell.
I hope that helps.

Can you see the creation of mankind (Adam and Eve) as less than perfect because of knowledge?

If you can, you will understand why only God could save His own creation.

It had to be a perfect man to annul the consequences of the gaining of knowledge in the first creation.

That is why there is a new creation, for we must have to be born again, as in spirit, to attain it, and that we have attained it by grace of which only God could do, otherwise, some may boast of their own righteousness.

Peace>>>AJ

Originally Posted by look3467

Can you see the creation of mankind (Adam and Eve) as less than perfect because of knowledge?

If you can, you will understand why only God could save His own creation.

It had to be a perfect man to annul the consequences of the gaining of knowledge in the first creation.

That is why there is a new creation, for we must have to be born again, as in spirit, to attain it, and that we have attained it by grace of which only God could do, otherwise, some may boast of their own righteousness.

Peace>>>AJ

That was the reason why God tried Adam and Eve, to give them a chance to be perfect. If Eve would have resisted the Devil, and Adam would have obeyed God, regardless of what migh happen, Adam and eve would have been perfect.
But because Eve was deveived and Adam chose to disobey God, we became sin. Because of that, as you say God if he was going to save his people he had to save them himself. That is why God sent his only Begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, who was born of a Virgin. The fact that he was born of a Virgin is ever so important. You see, if Jesus would have been born just as anyother human being, his birth would have just been another birth and nothing speacial. The most important reason was this. Sin is in the blood of every human being. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Rom 3:23
That is why any human being that is born of a woman if that person lives past the age of accountability and dies without the Lord Jesus Chirst will pay for his sins for all eternity in hell, and then the Lake of Fire. "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:", Rom 5:12 "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ." Rom 5:17
If the Lord Jesus Christ had the blood of Joeseph in his veins, he would been guilty of sin because we are all under sin that are born of the flesh, but because he was a born of a Virgin, he wasn't tainted with mans blood because he had God's blood.
You see the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins, and he saves us by his grace. But we can in no wise recieve grace from God untill we believe on his only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ"
Salvation is open to all who will believe, but you must by your own will chose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. God will not force anyone to believe on his son the Lord Jesus, you must chose to do so by your own will. "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". John 3:16
Have a good day, I hope this helps,
Josh

[Luke]

[QUOTE=joshjefflawn;5536]

Originally Posted by Greektim

PostMil believe that we are after the Millennium while A-Millennalists believe that the Millennium which is a general time, and not actually a kingdome.

God bless Bro, and thankyou

I think you'll find that Post Millennialists don't believe that we are living after the Kingdom, but rather, that Jesus will return after a spiritual reign, and that the church will usher in the eternal kingdom, by preparing this earth for God, or some nonsense. Post Mil is decidedly Catholic. They often claim we are living in the Millennial Kingdom now (Jesus in our hearts), and that after a great apostasy at the end of this age (leaving Rome), their will be a great revival (a return to Rome), and Jesus will return.

It's something dumb like that.