[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by KingSolomon1611

I do believe all blacks are Hamites but I don't believe all blacks are descendants of Canaan. I am a racist and a bigot but I didn't think it was fair for you to call my hand on it before I have had an opportunity to adequately articulate my sinful pride and arrogance (ha ha ha- I'm just joking. I don't dislike a person based upon the color of their skin). I too like another brother or two on this forum have a wife of another nation/race. I am white and she is oriental. I have black friends and my recent disciple is a Hametic Brother in the Lord (I don't know if he is a Canaanite though...I thought about barking out a couple of orders and see if he obeys me or punches me in the mouth. Ha Ha Just joking again!).

I don't have time tonight but I would like to jump back to this discussion and maybe elaborate on some ideas and toss them out to a critical crowd to see if it can stand the scrutiny of the bretheren. I have a ton of homework to do and need to get back to it. Thanks for your response.

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Brother Solomon, my only disagreement with you is a slight one, semantics, nomenclature. In time past, under the commonwealth of Israel, there were two races: Jews, and everybody else. In the age of God's grace the terms "Hamite" "Japethite" "Shemite" are a bit obsolete. As near as my anthropological studies have taken me, your wife and Muslim Arabs are Shemites, as are American Indians and Indians of central and south America. I'm 3/4 Scot/Irish, 1/4 Shawnee/Cherokee. That and 2 dollars gets a cup of coffee at Waffle House in God's eyes. Adolf Hitler was 1/4 Jewish and 1/2 Slavonic Czech, he was not even a member of the Aryan Race he worshiped.

I'm not raising a contention with you, I felt led to point out the 'H-J-S" words are appropriate for Dr. Ruckman's cult,William Pierce's National Alliance and the Christian Identity terrorist group, I think as Christians we should not dwell on where we came from but who we are today in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you

Tony

[KingSolomon1611]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

... for Dr. Ruckman's cult,William Pierce's National Alliance and the Christian Identity terrorist group, I think as Christians we should not dwell on where we came from but who we are today in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you

Tony

Considering I am a PBI graduate (and a Ruckmanite) and have just been linked with murderers and facists I will ignore semantical points poorly articulated. Where in the world did you get the idea to lump Ruckman, who has trained missionaries that are serving in Africa and many other countries, with guys that murder people and who promote murder?

Maybe you know something about Ruckman that I don't? I studied under him for 3 and a half years. Maybe I missed something?

I don't know what kind of grace and peace I am supposed to receive after being indirectly associated with someone who you seem to mention in the same breath as murderers and nazis

[KingSolomon1611]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

I felt led to point out the 'H-J-S" words are appropriate for Dr. Ruckman's cult,William Pierce's National Alliance and the Christian Identity terrorist group, I think as Christians we should not dwell on where we came from but who we are today in Christ Jesus.

Grace and peace to you

Tony

I mentioned the origins on a thread about Ham. I'm not "dwelling on it". Besides Paul "dwelt on it" every now and then.

Romans 11:1 (KJV)
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

And since "H-J-S" are appropriate for murderers,facists and Ruckman(?) maybe you should note that the Holy Spirit thought it appropriate to show the gospel of the grace going to a represenative of "H-J-S" :

-Acts 8 the Ethiopian Eunuch gets saved. "H" for Ham

- Acts 9 Saul gets saved. "S" for Shem

- Acts 10 Cornelius gets saved. "J" for Japheth

Maybe you could benefit from sitting under Ruckman for a while. He teaches the Bible pretty good for a "cult" leader.

[KingSolomon1611]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

The curse placed by Noah was that the Canaanites would serve the the children of Israel(servants to the Egyptians), not white American Gentiles. We appear nowhere in Scripture as prophecy, neither does the Body of Christ.

Grace and peace sister.

Tony

I'd say Canaan was also prophesied to be a servant to the descendants of Japheth.

Genesis 9:26-27 (KJV)
26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

[Brother Tim]

Solomon, the following fact continues to be ignored in your posts:
Black-skinned people of Africa do not descend from Canaan. They are NOT Canaanites! Canaan's land boundaries are exactly spelled out in the Scriptures, and that land DOES NOT include Africa. Ham's OTHER son(s) (one or more) is/are the ancestor(s) of the black-skinned nations of Africa.

Originally Posted by KingSolomon1611

Considering I am a PBI graduate (and a Ruckmanite) and have just been linked with murderers and facists I will ignore semantical points poorly articulated. Where in the world did you get the idea to lump Ruckman, who has trained missionaries that are serving in Africa and many other countries, with guys that murder people and who promote murder?

Maybe you know something about Ruckman that I don't? I studied under him for 3 and a half years. Maybe I missed something?

I don't know what kind of grace and peace I am supposed to receive after being indirectly associated with someone who you seem to mention in the same breath as murderers and nazis

King, that makes a couple of times Tony has called my friend brother Ruckman a CULTIST. It's uncalled for, but then let's face it; Tony likes to attack Baptist Pastors, because he likes to attack water baptism. This is typical of Hyperdispensationalists, that's why he calls the ordinances of our New Testament "sacraments," OVER and OVER and OVER again on this forum. Tony has proven to be a chameleon on this forum, one day he is polite and the next day he is swinging his fist calling me a Neanderthal and spitting venom. Then he comes back and apologizes. In all of this, I have learned to love the guy for what he is. Tony is also having a tough time at home and we need to pray for him and his family.

Ruckman has flaws, I don't agree with him on everything; but Doc has done a lot of good, he has been a personal blessing to me and millions of Bible students, and he has stood for the KJV longer by far than most of his pesky critics on internet forums.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by KingSolomon1611

Considering I am a PBI graduate (and a Ruckmanite) and have just been linked with murderers and facists I will ignore semantical points poorly articulated. Where in the world did you get the idea to lump Ruckman, who has trained missionaries that are serving in Africa and many other countries, with guys that murder people and who promote murder?

Maybe you know something about Ruckman that I don't? I studied under him for 3 and a half years. Maybe I missed something?

I don't know what kind of grace and peace I am supposed to receive after being indirectly associated with someone who you seem to mention in the same breath as murderers and nazis

Okay, if you want to take my comment amiss, let's take it amiss. You were associated with no one. You were shown that the three races of man are not spades, crackers, and hebes(Dr. Ruckman's words from various books and commentaries still in print) Read his commentary on Genesis 9 and tell me who was "sodomized" and what curse still is in place from post Adamic times to the present. Sure, Dr. Ruckman has trained many missionaries that were needed in his home country for Africa and many other places. Jack Hyles preached some of the most Scriptural and Spirit-filled messages against adultery ever recorded by print or electronic meanswhile practicing it. Your point?

If nothing else I'm glad you were grounded in the inspiration of the KJV from PBI. I was educated at the Oregon District(5th Street in Dayton Ohio) Theological Seminary. One Saturday night in Oct. of 1988 I was with a group of people who tried to talk personally to Dr. Ruckman at Charity Baptist Church of "Dr." Greg Estep in Beavercreek Ohio regarding the corrupt Westcott/Hort text of the Bearing Precious Seed Spanish New Testament Of "Dr." Charles Keen(or Kean) of First Baptist Church of Milford Ohio that was being pawned off to many Baptist churches as "The KJV In Spanish!". I still have the BPS Spanish NT, it's word for word the text of the Reina-Valera of 1901, that follows the Westcott/Hort text. We were prevented from meeting with Dr. Ruckman because he refused to address the issue that he was wrong and failed to check out what he endorsed before endorsing it. I quote William of Occam:

"Oops".

We were prevented bodily from getting within proximity of Dr. Ruckman by "Dr." Estep and two young men who were bodybuilders, Ruckman's bodyguards. When I made the statement to the men and women with me that let's not waste anymore time and head for the street ministry, one of the young men made an obscene remark I won;t repeat for the sake of the women in this forum. I won't repeat it for the sake of the men, either.

By Dr. Ruckman's fruits ye shall know them.

On four occasions I wasa approached secretly by four men, PBI graduates and members of Charity Baptist, who told me they had examined the BPS NT and that we were "right" about it. I told them, kewl, come down on the street with us, let's win some souls to Christ this weekend. I was told four times by these four men, PBI graduates, blood-bought Christian men, "I h'ain;t witnessin' to no n****rs!"

By Dr. Ruckman's fruits ye shall know them.

Grace and peace Solomon, you need both. You also need to stop being a respecter of persons. Dr. Peter S. Ruckman has been in the ministry of reconciliation over 62 years now, is 89 years old, has macular degeneration, degenerative disk disease of the lumbar veterbre, has done much to champion the inspiration of the KJV, God's inspired words in English, and also wasn't nailed to a cross 2000 years ago for you or me.

Tony

[pbiwolski]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

You also need to stop being a respecter of persons.

I respect Dr. Ruckman. Is it okay for me to do that, Tony?

It was a blessing to travel to MD two nights last month and hear him preach again. I forgot how funny he was when preaching. He preached "A Great Woman" and "W.A.T.C.H." to whom it may concern.

[Winman]

I believe Gen 9:24-27 to be somewhat misunderstood.

Gen 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

I have been reading a series of articles that show that Shem, Ham, and Japheth represent the triune parts of a man, Shem represents the Spirit, Ham represents the Body, and Japheth represents the Soul. And history validates this. The Shemites have been responsible for the great religions such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. The Hamites have been responsible for practical technology and inventions, while the Japhethites have had a leading role in philosophy and science. Now these are general statements, but generally they are very true.

As for Ham's descendents being servants, this is not altogether as terrible as it seems. The Lord himself said of servants;

Mark 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So, the Lord Jesus himself exalted the role of the servant, as he was a servant himself.

That said, being a servant is a very hard and difficult occupation. And the descendants of Ham in many respects have not enjoyed the fruits of their own labors.

One of the articles I read showed the inventions that have benefitted all mankind that have come from the descendants of Ham.

Look at this impressive list of accomplishments of the Hamitic peoples

Accomplishments of the Hamitic Peoples

Mechanical Principles and Applications

Block and Tackle
Gimbal suspension
Domes and arches
Whiffletrees
Suspension bridges
Lock gates and lifts
Windlass
Cantilever principle
Fire pistons
Gears Chain drives
Lathes
Pulleys Catapults
Clockwork
Steam engine principle mechanism

Materials

Copper
Bellows systems of all types
Bronze
Glass (including possibly a malleable glass)
Iron
Pottery, china and porcelain
Cast Iron
Lenses of several types
Steel
Charcoal and carbon black
Cement
Glues and preservatives
Dyes and inks
Shellacs, varnishes and enamels
Rubber
Casting methods of all kinds including
Case hardening hollow casting
Gold and silver working including beading, repoussé, sheet, wire and the plating of metals.

Building Techniques, Tools and Materials

Nails
Window materials, including glass
Saws
Door hinges and locks
Hammers
Protective coatings
Brace and Bit
Street drainage systems
Sandpaper
Sewage disposal on a wide scale
Rope saws
Running water in piped systems
Carborundum
Piped gas for heating
Stoves
Central heating systems
Plans and Maps
Surveying instruments
Drills (including diamond drills)
Buildings of all types, including genuine skyscrapers and earthquake proof construction

Fabrics and Weaving, etc.

Linen
Voile
Ikat or tie-dyeing
Cotton
Tapestry
Feather and fur garments
Silk
Batique
Tailored clothing
Wool
Needles
Double-faced cloth
Felt
Thimbles
Knitted and crocheted materials
Lace
Parchment
All types of thread
Netting
Guaze
Dyes of all kinds
Mechanical looms
Silk screen methods of decoration
Invisible mending
Ropes up to 12 inches in diameter
Flying shuttles
Netting shuttles

Writing, Printing, etc.

Inks
Textbooks
Chalks
Encyclopedias
Pencils and crayons
Libraries and cataloguing systems
Block printing
Literary forms (fables, etc.)
Movable type
Envelopes and postal systems
All kinds of paper
Paper of all kinds, including coated stock.
Scripts (Sumerian, Cuneiform and its successors, Egyptian, Hittite, Minoan, Chinese, Easter Island, Indus Valley, and Mayan)

Foodstuffs

Aloes
Chickle gum
Tomato
Pears
Cascara
Sweet Potato
Kidney beans
Pineapple
Prickly pear
Cereals
Chili pepper
Squash
Cocoa
Cashew and peanut
Corn
Coffee
Manioc
Beans
Tea
Artichoke
Strawberries
Tobacco
Potato
Arrowroot

Animals Domesticated

Pigs
Dogs
Llama
Horses
Cats
Alpaca
Fowl
Camels
Cows, sheep, etc.

Foodgathering Methods

The use of countless fish poisons and animal intoxicants
The use of other tamed animals to catch 'game':
dogs and cormorants for fishing, cats for hunting,
various birds of prey such as eagles, falcons, etc.
Elephants for labour and land clearance
Traps and nets of all kinds

Travel Conveyances, etc.

Compass
Canals and locks
Road Rollers
Skis
Sternpost rudder
Wheelbarrows
Toboggans
All types of water craft
Stirrups
Snowshoes
Cement paving
Wheeled vehicles
Travois
Surfaced Roads
Wheels: solid, spoked, rimmed and tired
Watertight-compartment construction for boats
Harness for domestic animals
Use of birds for navigation
Bridges of all types: suspension, cantilever, arch, etc.

"Aircraft"

Balloons
Gliders
Helicopters
Kites
Parachutes
Jet Propulsion
Weather-signalling and forecasting

Cosmetics, etc.

Mirrors
Nail polishes
Toothbrushes
Wigs
Scissors
Shaving equipment
Combs
Powders and ointments
Jewelry of all kinds

Mathematics

Geometry
A kind of logarithms
Trigonometry
Concept of zero
Algebra
Use of place system

Trade and Commerce

Paper money and coinage
Systems of inspection
Banking houses
Trade regulations and price-fixing
Postal systems
Wage regulation and compensation systems
Loans with interest
Accounting systems and formal contracts
Weights and measures

Medical and Surgical Practices and Instruments

Gargles
Anaesthetics
Lotions
Snuffs
Soaps
Ointments
Inhalators
Splints
Plasters
Enemas
Quinine
Adhesive tapes
Fumigators
Poultices
Tourniquet
Suppositories
Decoctions
Surgical stitching
Insecticides
Infusions
Bandages
Truth serums
Pills
Curare
Cocaine
Troches
Trephination
Caesarian operations
Vaccine for smallpox
Cascara and other emetics
Tranquillizing drugs
Animal-stupefying drugs
Surgical instruments of all kinds; knives, forceps, tweezers, etc.
Identification and treatment of, hundreds of common diseases and injuries including brain and eye operations and surgery in general.

Household Furnishing

Hammocks
Gas cookers
Fans
Rocking stools
Rotary querns
Clocks
Folding beds
Lamps
Running water
Oil stoves
Space heaters
A form of "telephone"
Whistling pots and kettles
Go-carts and other toys for children

Games

Wrestling
Revolving stages for theaters
Rubber ball games
Lacrosse
Numerous board games (chess, checkers, etc.)

Warfare

Weapons of all types
Bows and crossbows
Bolas
Rifled weapons
Guided missiles
Body armour
Aerial bombardment
Poison gases and toxic agents
Flame throwers
Gun powder
Bows and crossbows
A repeating bow, a form of machine gun
Heavy artillery (catapults of several kinds)

Musical Instruments

Wind instruments (organ, pipes, horns, flutes, etc.)
Stringed instruments (various modifications of the harp)
Percussion instruments (tubes, bars, stones, bells, and diaphragms)
Tuning forks of various kinds

Miscellaneous

Umbrellas
Safety pins
Straws for drinking
Spectacles
Calendars
Telescopes (?)
Snow goggles
Cigar holders
Finger printing for identification

So, as you can see, this is an incredibly impressive list of inventions and technology by Hamitic peoples that has served and benefitted all mankind.

And we even see the sons of Noah in the crucifixtion of Jesus. He was condemned to death by the Semites (Jews), his cross was carried by a Hamite;

Matt 27:32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.

And Jesus was put to death by a Japhethite (Romans).

So even in account we see the three sons of Noah, named in order of Shem, Ham, and Japheth as they always are. But Simon of Cyrene did not do evil here as the Jews and Romans did. He carried the cross, again, he was a servant.

So, I think scripture does support this theory to a great degree.

[Brother Tim]

So, I think scripture does support this theory to a great degree.

The plain "black and white" of the Scriptures, that is, the simple, clear words, do no such thing!