[Brother Tim]

George, if I understand you, you advocate total separation from others based on discordant doctrine. How then can you fellowship with those of us that view dispensations differently, either extreme on one end, such as Tony, or oppositely, folks as myself? I would think that you would find some common ground and have fellowship where you could. Yes, there can come a point where separation is necessary, like Paul and Barnabas, but that should be a last resort.

While we believers are all "traveling" along on the way to glory, some get off the path and fall behind. Hopefully there will be someone to show them how to get back on track (James 5:19-20). Others make their true nature known and quit the path, returning back to their wallow in the mud (1 John 2:19).

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Diligent

I think you might need to read it a third time -- I didn't read it the way you did. I'm pretty sure he was talking about some defunct forum I had nothing to do with.

This forum is actually quite open, but I do have my limits. People who want a septic tank to play in can go over to the triple-flunky forum.

Brandon, brother Parrish might have read it wrong as you said. No, you are not "liberal" with this forum, yes, you are patient and longsuffering.

This next statement has nothing to do with you or your running of the forum. (I own a few groups on Yahoo where I have to have an iron hand occasionally, particularly with trolls and hackers, I know you can discern the fakes from the real people). I'm not rebuking anyone in this forum for anything, or condemning their responses, I just discern a hair-trigger once and a while.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

LOL, you said "hair trigger" and suddenly I started getting all these weird Clint Eastwood flashbacks...

[George]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

George, if I understand you, you advocate total separation from others based on discordant doctrine. How then can you fellowship with those of us that view dispensations differently, either extreme on one end, such as Tony, or oppositely, folks as myself? I would think that you would find some common ground and have fellowship where you could. Yes, there can come a point where separation is necessary, like Paul and Barnabas, but that should be a last resort.

While we believers are all "traveling" along on the way to glory, some get off the path and fall behind. Hopefully there will be someone to show them how to get back on track (James 5:19-20). Others make their true nature known and quit the path, returning back to their wallow in the mud (1 John 2:19).

Aloha brother Tim,

WHY would you have any "difficulty" with (George's Post #149):

"I can "fellowship" with Christians that do not believe as I do about the King James Bible - I CANNOT "fellowship" with those "Christians" who SUBTRACT from it; or ADD to it; or CHANGE it. And I especially want NOTHING TO DO with those "Christians" who will ATTACK it; RIDICULE it; and MALIGN it."

I don't know HOW I can be much clearer. I DRAW THE LINE with Bible "Correctors", "Deniers", or anyone else who "claims" to be a "Christian", but WHO "ADDS", "SUBTRACTS", "CHANGES", "MALIGNS", OR "RIDICULES" the HOLY Bible. (Do you do any of those things? NOT by your testimony & conduct here!)

You said:

"George, if I understand you, you advocate total separation from others based on discordant doctrine."

Brother, you DON'T understand me. This is NOT about "discordant doctrine" {I am real tolerant - unless it involves clear HERESY}; this about someone (who "claims" to be a "Christian"), WHO is "messing" with the Holy words of God! WHY would I want to have ANYTHING to do with such a person? Do you consider "ADDING", "SUBTRACTING", "CHANGING", "MALIGNING", or "RIDICULING" the HOLY Bible A "MINOR OFFENSE"? If you don't - WHY do you bother with these people?

HOW do you know these people are "saved" - because they say so? Now I DON'T KNOW whether they are "saved" or not, but one thing's for sure - they sure don't act like it! {by their "words" and their "deeds" you couldn't tell}

Are you aware of Paul's WARNING?

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Do you "think" that this only happened "back then" and is NOT occurring TODAY? Aren't you in the least "concerned" that perhaps some of these men (after all, you DON'T KNOW them - they are "STRANGERS") may possibly be:

2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

If there is a possibility that "some" of these men may actually be "wolves in sheep's clothing" - WHY bother with ANY of them? Are you so "hard up" for "fellowship" that you are willing to risk "fellowshipping" with a "false teacher"; a "deceitful worker"; a "minister" of Satan? Before I "fellowship" with anyone who "calls himself" a "Christian", I first determine whether that man "ADDS", "SUBTRACTS", "CHANGES", "MALIGNS", OR "RIDICULES" the HOLY Bible, and IF HE DOES - I WILL HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM - and honestly & truthfully I cannot understand how any genuine Bible believer can (for any length of time).

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

If you cannot be at least "fairly sure" about their salvation (after all they are "strangers") - WHY bother with them? IF there is "chance" that some of them are "lost" (or worse - i.e. Satan's ministers) - WHY engage them in "meaningful dialogue"?

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

I am far more "tolerant" (and so was the Lord Jesus Christ) of ordinary Christians, who in the flesh, may have problems with alcohol, smoking, drugs, sex, etc., than I am of some educated smart alack, (i.e a Pharisee - especially a "pastor") who believes he can CHANGE the words of God in the King James Bible, (and get away with it). I especially get upset when these people from FFF come here and stir up trouble. It should be obvious that they are NOT "sincere" and that have a "destructive agenda" - witness how many of them have been BANNED!

WHO do you "think" these verses apply to today - Just the Apostate Protestant churches?

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

We have to be on guard, because Paul said that the "wolves in sheep's clothing" are going to come within the ranks of the "leaders" of the church - i.e. the "pastors' and "elders". Paul describes them as "grievous wolves"; "false apostles"; Satan's "ministers" (who "APPEAR" to be "sheep" but are in reality: "transformed as the ministers of righteousness").

I DON'T KNOW any of the men on the FFF, but I do judge their "words" & "conduct"; and have examined their "fruits" (both here on the AV1611 Forums and very briefly on the FFF), and truthfully - their "FRUITS" stink to high heaven!

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Let's examine their "FRUITS" shall we?

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

And can you tell me WHY is it that so much of their "conduct" emulates the lost?

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Ephesians 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

I have a lot of Scriptural reasons (and there's lots more verses) not to "fellowship" or have anything to do with these men - perhaps you can give me some verses of Scripture as to WHY you bother with them.

And perhaps you can tell us, IF, after having spent whatever time you have with these men on FFF - have you ever "persuaded" even one of them to "your point of view"?

Since "strife" and "contention" follow these men wherever they go, as soon as I determine (by their "words" & "conduct") that they are insincere, disingenuous, deceitful, and deceptive - I reprove them or rebuke them and then I leave them alone; and refuse to have anything more to do with them. Anything more is just "an exercise in futility"!

Proverbs 17:14 The beginning of strife is as when one letteth out water: therefore leave off contention, before it be meddled with.

Proverbs 17:19 He loveth transgression that loveth strife: and he that exalteth his gate seeketh destruction.

Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Proverbs 22:10 Cast out the scorner, and contention shall go out; yea, strife and reproach shall cease.

[Mathew Ward]

Originally Posted by George

The Holy Bible says: "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" [Amos 3:3]

Why is then people look to what they disagree about more then what they agree on?

If we can agree on salvation we should be able to walk together, should we not?

If we can agree that the message of salvation needs to be taken into all the world and preached to everyone we should be able to walk together, should we not?

I could go on and on but I think you can see my point.

If we can only walk with those we agree 100% on, then it will be one lonely walk. Because I do not know anyone I agree 100% on every Bible doctine, do you?

[biblereader]

Here's my thoughts on the matter.

NO WHERE in the bible does Jesus tell us to investigate MULTIPLE TRANSLATIONS. That is not in the Holy Bible.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

No, you don’t need to learn what the bible says, by using other translations, because the translations are corrupt, and the translators, as far as I have found out, are not born again. Why would God provide the KJV bible, to people, for hundreds of years, and millions of people understood it, and were saved, and lived Godly lives. AND used NO OTHER bible. Then, translations from the Latin vulgate, from the Catholic body, corrupted the text, the original(yes, I said it), the as close to original as you can get without getting a Hebrew bible, and a Greek and Aramaic bible. Why did man want to make different per-versions of the Holy Bible?
For control, for power, for wealth, for spreading doctrines of demons, for causing confusion and mistrust, for promoting spiritual laziness and apathy. (People don’t want to bother to compare scripture with scripture any more, in the KJV, they think they aren’t smart enough to understand the KJV, which is what the sellers of the other versions are telling people, that you’re too stupid to be able to understand what the KJV says, so, here, read OUR version of the bible. Don’t pay attention to the errors, we have been to seminary school, etc., we know more than you…etc. Sounds EXACTLY like how the popes and bishops, and Catholic priests gained complete control over the people, and the governments. They told everyone that they were the only ones qualified to teach and to preach the bible. That’s a lie out of hell.

God provides ALL you need, ALL of it,to understand the Textus Receptus, KJV bible. “But I don’t understand the thee’s and thou’s and all that antique language”. That’s either because you don’t have the Holy Spirit within you which means you are not born again, or, it means you aren’t trusting the gift of God, within you, and listening to Him as HE teaches you. So, one reason is you aren’t born again, the other reason could be you ARE born again, but are not listening as the anointing teacheth you.
What does the bible say about this?
Jesus says this: But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

[biblereader]

Why is then people look to what they disagree about more then what they agree on?

If we can agree on salvation we should be able to walk together, should we not?

No, because you have to accept the entire Holy Bible as truth, and uncorrupted truth.
What bible versions do you like to read from?

[CKG]

The basis of our fellowship is not just the gospel.

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:3)

I can have a certain amount of fellowship with someone who uses a version other than the KJV, but it can only go so far because the main point of our fellowship "is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ" and his version attacks the person and work of our Lord Jesus as presented in his true word, the KJV

Micah 5:2
KJV: But thou, Beth-lehem Eph'ratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel: whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

NIV: But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.

Comment: Micah 5:2 is a prophecy of where Jesus would be born (see Matthew 2:3-6). The KJV refers to this one who is going to be a ruler , Jesus, as being from "everlasting": in other words he had no beginning because He is God. The NIV says that Jesus had an origin implying that He was created.
………………………….

Matthew 18:11
KJV: For the Son of Man is come to save that which was lost.

NASB: [For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.]

NIV:

Comment: The NASB brackets this verse while the NIV omits it from the text and inserts it as a footnote.
……………………………..

Matthew 27:35
KJV: And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vestures did they cast lots.

NASB: And when they had crucified Him, they divided up his garments among themselves, casting lots;

NIV: When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots

Comment: NASB & NIV omit “that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots”.
………………………………

Mark 15:28
KJV: And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors.

NASB: [And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'And He was numbered with transgressors]

NIV:

Comment: NASB brackets this verse and NIV omits it from the text and inserts it as a footnote.
…………………………………..

Luke 2:33
KJV: And Joseph and his mother marveled at those things which were spoken of him.

NASB: And His father and mother were amazed at the things which were being said about Him.

NIV: The child's father and mother marveled at what was said about him.

Comment: The NASB and NIV replace “Joseph” with “His father” and “child’s father”. A subtle (see Genesis 3:1) attack on the virgin birth, for if Joseph really was Jesus' father then it wouldn't have been a virgin birth. In Luke 2:48-49, Jesus leaves no doubt as to who his Father is.
…………………………….

Luke 24:40
KJV: And when he had thus spoken, he showed them his hands and his feet.

NASB: [And when He has said this, He showed them His hands and feet.]

Comment: The NASB brackets this verse, meaning those translators didn’t believe this verse was in the originals.
……………………………..

Luke 24:51-52
KJV: 51. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

NASB: 51. And it came about that while He was blessing them, He parted from them. 52. And they returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

Comment: The NASB omits "carried up into heaven" and "worshipped him".
………………………………….

John 6:47
KJV: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life

NASB: Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

NIV: I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.

Comment: The NASB and NIV omit "on me" (referring to Jesus).
………………………………….

John 16:16
KJV: A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

NASB: A little while and you will no longer behold Me, and again a little while, and you will see me.

NIV: In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me.

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "because I go to the Father".
……………………………………..

Acts 2:30
KJV: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne:

NASB: And so, because he was a prophet, and knew that God had sworn to Him with an oath to seat one of His descendants upon His Throne,

NIV: But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him an oath that he would place one of his descendants in his throne

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ".
……………………………………..


Acts 8:37
KJV: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

NASB: [And Philip said, "If thou believe with all your heart, you may". And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]

NIV:

Comment: NASB brackets this verse and usually has a footnote that says something like "Most manuscripts do not contain this verse." The NIV omits the verse from the text and inserts it as a footnote.
………………………………………

Romans 1:16
KJV: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ...

NASB: For I am not ashamed of the gospel...

NIV: I am not ashamed of the gospel...

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "of Christ".
…………………………………….

I Corinthians 5:7b
KJV: ...for even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.

NASB: ...for Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed.

NIV: ...For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "for us".
……………………………………..

Galatians 6:15
KJV: For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

NASB: For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.

NIV: Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything: what counts is a new creation.

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "in Christ Jesus".
…………………………………..

Ephesians 3:9
KJV: And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God who created all things by Jesus Christ.

NASB: and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things

NIV: and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "by Jesus Christ".
…………………………………………

Colossians 1:14
KJV: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins

NASB: In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
NIV: In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Comment: NASB and NIV omit "through his blood".
…………………………………………� �..


I Timothy 2:7
KJV: ...(I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not)...

NASB: ...(I am telling the truth, I am not lying)...

NIV: I am telling the truth, I am not lying...

Comment: NASB and NIV omit “in Christ”.
…………………………………………� �…….

I Timothy 3:16
KJV: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh ...

NASB: And by common confession great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh ...

NIV: Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body ...

Comment: The NASB and NIV replace "God" with "He". Does it make a difference? People of other religions, cults (such as Jehovah's Witnesses), and probably most lost people have no problem with the NASB and NIV rendering of this verse. After all they believe there actually was a person named Jesus, who was here in a body or flesh: a person like the rest of us. They just don't believe He was God! The KJV says God was manifest in the flesh. When did God ever take on flesh? The Lord Jesus Christ! One of the greatest verses in the Bible on the deity of Jesus Christ!
…………………………………………� �……

I Peter 4:1
KJV: Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh ...

NASB: Therefore since Christ has suffered in the flesh ...

NIV: Therefore since Christ suffered in his body ...

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "for us".
…………………………………………� �…

I John 4:3
KJV: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come: and even now already is it in the world.

NASB: and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

NIV: but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "Christ is come in the flesh".
…………………………………………� �…

I John 5:7
KJV: For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

NASB: And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

NIV: For there are three that testify.

Comment: NASB and NIV omit I John 5:7 as it appears in the KJV. Why leave out a verse that teaches the Trinity and the deity of Jesus Christ?
…………………………………………� �….

Revelation 1:8
KJV: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord ...

NASB: "I am the Alpha and Omega" says the Lord ...

NIV: "I am the Alpha and Omega" says the Lord God ...
Comment: NASB and NIV omit "the beginning and the ending".
…………………………………………� �…….

Revelation 1:11
KJV: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last and what thou seest, write in a book ...

NASB: saying "Write in a book what you see ...
NIV: which said "Write on a Scroll what you see ...

Comment: NASB and NIV omit "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last".
…………………………………………� �……
Revelation 5:14
KJV: And the four beasts said, Amen, And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth forever and ever.

NASB: And the four living creatures kept saying, “Amen.” And the elders fell down and worshiped.

NIV: The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshipped.

Comment: NASB and NIV omit “ him that liveth forever and ever”.
…………………………………………� �…………

Revelation 11:17
KJV: Saying, We give the thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come,....

NASB: We give Thee thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who art and who wast,....

NIV: We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was,....

Comment: NASB & NIV omit “art to come:.
…………………………………………� �………

Revelation 16:5
KJV: And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be...

NASB: And I heard the angel of the waters saying, “righteous art Thou, who art and who wast....

NIV: You are just in these judgments, you who are and who were....

Comment: NASB & NIV omit “and shalt be”.
…………………………………………� �………….

[George]

Originally Posted by Mathew Ward

"Why is then people look to what they disagree about more then what they agree on?

If we can agree on salvation we should be able to walk together, should we not?

If we can agree that the message of salvation needs to be taken into all the world and preached to everyone we should be able to walk together, should we not?

I could go on and on but I think you can see my point.

If we can only walk with those we agree 100% on, then it will be one lonely walk. Because I do not know anyone I agree 100% on every Bible doctine, do you ?"

Aloha brother Matthew,

Since March of last year (2008) I have posted nearly 750 Posts on the AV1611 Forums. I have NEVER said, nor would I ever say, that "we can only walk with those we agree 100%". I can have fellowship (around the Lord Jesus Christ & His Holy word) with "all-kinds" of Christians (I'm far more "tolerant" of Christians troubled by "the sins of the flesh", or of Christians that hold to "discordant doctrines" (NOT "heresies") than most of the Christians I have met in the 50 years I have been a blood bought child of God).

But I do "DRAW LINES". I will NOT "fellowship" with a out & out "Heretick"; I will NOT fellowship with ANYONE who is called a "Christian", who ADDS; SUBTRACTS; or CHANGES the Holy words of God as found in the King James Bible; I will NOT "fellowship" with ANYONE who viciously attacks, maligns, or ridicules the King James Bible; nor will I "fellowship" with ANYONE who viciously attacks, maligns, or ridicules King James Bible believers.

Now if that means I will have to endure a "lonely" walk (which I have for the past 40 years) - SO BE IT! Our "fellowship" is NOT based on the "Gospel" ALONE. Our "fellowship" MUST be based ON the Holy and pure words of God and WITH the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

WHERE is does it say that our "fellowship" is around the "Gospel"? We are saved by and through the Gospel; but our "fellowship" is WITH God the Father , and WITH His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. And this "fellowship" MUST be around the Holy word of God - NOT just the "Gospel" only.

4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Now you'll notice the "Gospel" is NOT mentioned once, but "His word" IS! God's word is supposed to be IN us, [Psalms 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.] that is -IN our HEARTS (NOT just our MINDS). Please tell me - HOW can "His word" be IN a person IF they have no idea WHERE it is? HOW can "His word" be IN a person IF they have no idea WHAT it is? HOW can "His word" be IN a person IF they are constantly ATTACKING it? And HOW can "His word" be IN a person IF they are constantly ATTACKING those Christians who are trying to uphold it and defend it?

The trouble with many of today's modern educated "Christians" is they have been "schooled" to know a whole lot of things about "Christianity" (doctrine, history, archeology, anthropology, eschatology, etc., etc.), but they have NOT been taught on HOW to "rightly divide the word of truth", nor have they been taught to rely on the Holy words of God for their understanding, because they don't know WHAT the Holy words of God are, or WHERE they can find them.

Now, I "know" WHAT the Holy words of God are, and I "know" WHERE to find them. I have trusted God for the PRESERVATION of His Holy words, and believe that they can be found - inspired, perfect, Holy, pure, and without error in the King James Bible.

Now if you "prefer" the King James Bible, that's perfectly OK with me. If you "prefer" the Hebrew & the Greek; or the "NASV" (or some other modern version); that's OK with me also (after all I don't have "dominion" over your faith - 2 Corinthians 1:24). BUT, when ANYONE, who calls himself (or herself) a "Christian" ADDS, SUBTRACTS, CHANGES, ATTACKS, MALIGNS, or RIDICULES my Bible they CROSS "A LINE" with me and I will have NOTHING MORE TO DO with that person.

If Almighty God has MAGNIFIED His Holy word ABOVE His Name: [Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.] shouldn't I at least get upset at "Christians" that viciously attack His Holy words?

WHY should I WANT to have "fellowship" with these kinds of "Christians"? WHY would I WANT to have ANYTHING to do with them? If I cannot have "fellowship" around God's Holy words with other "Christians", I want NO PART of any other kind of "fellowship"! Whether that "fellowship" be around the "Gospel" only; or around the Abortion issue only; or around our oppressive government issue only; or around the "homeschool" issue only; or around the "sodomite agenda only. If my "fellowship" with other Christians is based solely on anything other than God's Holy words, then that fellowship is perverted and cannot be WITH the Father and His son, the Lord Jesus Christ, because God DOES NOT DO ANYTHING OUTSIDE (OR APART) FROM HIS HOLY WORD!

Psalms 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right; and all his works are done in truth.

And according to the Holy Scriptures: . . . . "thy word is truth." [John 17:17]

Do you see the "dilemma" that most modern (educated & schooled) Christians have placed themselves in? They don't know WHAT God's word is and they don't know WHERE to find it. And if they don't know WHAT the "Truth" is or WHERE to find it, HOW can they possibly do a WORK for God, IF -"all his works are done in truth."?

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

2 John 1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2 For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.
3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
4 I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.

3 John 1:1 The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.
2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.
4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

You see brother, God's words are NOT just about the "Gospel" - they are about the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH, and NOTHING but the TRUTH. and if, anyone that is called a "brother", ADDS to the TRUTH; or SUBTRACTS from the TRUTH; or CHANGES the TRUTH; or ATTACKS the TRUTH; or MALIGNS the TRUTH; or RIDICULES the TRUTH - I will separate myself from that "brother" (or "sister") and have nothing more to do with them. This "issue" will be settled at the Judgment Seat of Christ. One of us is terribly WRONG. One of us has embraced "the spirit of truth", and one of us has embraced "the spirit of error". The "TRUTH" will come out in the end.

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

[Mathew Ward]

Originally Posted by biblereader

What bible versions do you like to read from?

I read from the King James Version, as I have all my life.

I also use the Greek and Hebrew along with some of the versions in SwordSearcher.