[Biblestudent]

Brother Tony,
The "one" there is not QUANTITY but QUALITY.

There is ONE true Lord, but there are OTHER lords.
There is ONE true Spirit, but there are OTHER spirits.
There is ONE faith that is essential -- the "faith of Christ"; but there are OTHER "faiths".
Etc.

There is ONE real baptism that saves today, the baptism by "one Spirit into the body of Christ"; but there are OTHER "baptisms".

Remember, when Paul said 1 Corinthians 12:13 and 1 Corinthians 1:17, he was water baptizing at the same time.

[Brother Tim]

Tony, could you clarify something for me.

Way back at the early posts, I asked a simple question. Restated, it is:

Are those who teach and practice water baptism today committing sin?

In a later response, you answered that it was not.

In a recent post, you said that the practice as used by IFBs is unscriptural. In my book, unscriptural is sinful.

Could you please explain?

Originally Posted by chette777

Not to be nit picky BUT,

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Matthew 28 was spoken to the (ye) 12 apostles and Jewish disciples.

here is an example of what Jesus commanded the disciples:
Matt 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. a different gospel than Paul's
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Do you also doing these? If not you are in violation to Matt 28:19, 20

Act 8 doesn't command Baptism or tell Christians or anyone to Baptize. It is an example of an apostle being obedient to Christ command of Matt 28. and remember the Ethiopian Eunuch was a Proselytize to Judaism.

"Matthew 28 was spoken to the (ye) 12 apostles and Jewish disciples."
"Do you also doing these? If not you are in violation to Matt 28:19, 20"

You are selectively quoting passages and forgetting their context brother.

In Matthew chapter ten the disciples were told not to go to the Gentiles "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 28 is after the death, burial and resurrection of our Lord and he tells them to go to all nations! It is not Jewish and that command has not been rescinded.

THE AUTHORITY OF THE GOSPELS AND ACTS

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, …
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE;

The Book of Acts is indeed a transitional book; but so are the four Gospels. You can give to the Jew what is the Jew's; to the Greek what is the Greek's; and to the church what is the church's without discarding the whole book! Where else can you find the “wholesome words of the Lord Jesus Christ” but in the Gospels and the beginning of the Book of Acts? Imagine a spiritual building of Ephesians 2:19, 20 without a foundation. Ultradispensationalism give you that floating building.

The law of commandments contained in ordinances (Eph 2:15, 16) was permitted for awhile, alongside the preaching of the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world (John 1:19) however, it was abolished at the cross as far as God was concerned. The Book of Acts records historically the phasing out of the old economy and the phasing in if the new. In God's mind however, the old economy was finished “at the cross” (Eph 2:15,16). The veil was rent in the Gospels not in the Epistles!

Some Christians cut the Bible up to the point that they may as well make a wallet out of it.

Originally Posted by chette777

Is water Baptism correct for believers today?

It is not for today if one is doing it to be saved?
It is not for today is one is doing it for the remission of sins?
It is not for today is one is wanting to join the Body of Christ?
It is not for today if it is for regeneration?
It is not for today if it is used for any other reason than the believers desire to make a public profession of their faith and Publicly identify with Christ?

You are a dispensationalist if you agree that Old Testament Salvation is different that Church Age Salvation.
Brother I'm new to this forum but noticed this post you made. I would like to say that I am a dispensationalist but I do not agree that Old Testament is different than that of the Church Age.
You are a dispensationalist if you agree God has a different times dealt differently with mankind at different times. i.e. Garden, pre flood, post flood, pre-Israel, Israel, body of Christ, Tribulation, Millennial Kingdom, Eternity.

This is probably for a different thread. I'm simply saying that OT salvation should not be used as a basis as to whether one is a dispensationalist or not. Regards.

[chette777]

When we say that the salvation of OT is different from that of the Church Age you only have to understand this one thing. I hope I can say this right.

All salvation, in any dispensations, has faith works and grace involved in some way. However the make up or applications of those three things are different

for example salvation under OT law one would do the works of the Law done in faith would acquired you the grace of God.

under the NT Church Age you have been given grace through Faith alone in Christ and you acquire salvation.

In the later grace came first then faith unto salvation. in the OT works by faith came first then you got grace unto salvation.

that's as simple as I can show the difference. and if you agree with that difference then you are a dispensationalist.

[chette777]

Tbones,

I wasn't ignoring your question it is a very good one. Why do we teach two baptism when only one is important?

Well, while I don't agree that Matt 28 is for us in this age. I do agree that 1) we need to go Roms 11 and preach so others can hear and have faith and get saved, the gospel we preach is not that of Matt 28, 2) Paul while didn't teach us to baptize or how but by his example he did baptize, so I will too but I wont force it on anyone as a requirement. 3) Hebrews does tell us there is more than one baptism when it says "doctrine of Baptisms" plural baptisms meaning there were two or more types of baptisms, we say one spiritual baptism and the other is physical baptism. yet another one would be baptism for the dead (don't ask me to comment on that because I have no idea what that is all about but this I do know it ain't no Mormon doctrine).

So for me it is not a big deal as long as the spiritual baptism has taken place. if that has not happened the other one or two should never take place.

Originally Posted by chette777

When we say that the salvation of OT is different from that of the Church Age you only have to understand this one thing. I hope I can say this right.

All salvation, in any dispensations, has faith works and grace involved in some way. However the make up or applications of those three things are different

for example salvation under OT law one would do the works of the Law done in faith would acquired you the grace of God.

under the NT Church Age you have been given grace through Faith alone in Christ and you acquire salvation.

In the later grace came first then faith unto salvation. in the OT works by faith came first then you got grace unto salvation.

that's as simple as I can show the difference. and if you agree with that difference then you are a dispensationalist.

"All salvation, in any dispensations, has faith works and grace involved in some way." What does Paul say?

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Brother you can jump through hoops to prove Paul didn't say what he said all you wish. He is showing a man before the law and under the law was imputed righteousness because of his faith. Keeping the ceremonial law had nothing to do with salvation as far as righteousness before God. Works in the Old Testament were "filthy rags" just as they are in the New Testament. Let me tell you a little secret. If you want to know how God dealt with men in the Old Testament just get a concordance and look up the word "heart."

Gen 6:5 ...every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 8:21 ...for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth

Exo 7:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Pharaoh's heart is hardened

Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart

Deu 4:29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.

You can find this throughout the Old Testament. Let's go to the New Testament.

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

God deals with men's hearts and their works prove what kind of hearts they have! That is why you see so many men who claim to be Christians but live their entire lives like devils. They give a mental assent to the gospel and Christianity but their hearts have never been converted. The same goes with a Jew under the law. He could keep all the ordinances and have all the outward appearance of piety yet have a heart just like the Pharisees and go straight to hell.

Many hyper-dispensationsalists refuse to preach about REPENTANCE when it comes to salvation because they turn it into a WORK. Repentance (a heartfelt sorrow for sin and a desire to turn from it) is no more a work than believing the gospel!

[chette777]

sorry tandi I will not go any further with you on this subject. As you have already added to my words and twisted some of what I said to support your view.
you don't seem to honestly want to hear other peoples view but you wish to teach and convert to your view.

Originally Posted by chette777

sorry tandi I will not go any further with you on this subject. As you have already added to my words and twisted some of what I said to support your view.
you don't seem to honestly want to hear other peoples view but you wish to teach and convert to your view.

Brother I'm sure all on this forum have strong beliefs concerning doctrine as both you and I do. I don't claim to have perfect knowledge of the word of God and sometimes I use a few exclamation points to emphasize things. I didn't mean to offend you but respect your decision not to continue discussing the subject. I wish you would have at least told me where I added or twisted words. Even so. May God bless you brother.

[chette777]

maybe I mis understood your intent. but never the less I wont go there with you.