[cb6445]

I agree, strange enough, I get very nervous around crowds and avoid them at all cost. The thought of standing in front of people and doing anything gets me shaky. I understand better now what you are saying, and I completely agree. I find nowhere in God's word where anyone was called for these "ministries"! If it don't line up with God's word (KJV), they are wrong and the Bible is right. I'm like you, if you have a talent to sing and you feel the Lord leading you to sing, buy all means.......SING! Same with the rest. I just see some of these so called "preachers" saying they are called of God to preach, and.......well, you've been around long enough to know what I'm saying there. They're standing behind the sacred desk of God and preaching (if you call it that) some of the craziest stuff. I talked to a guy the other day that goes to a Baptist church down the road and he said his preacher teaches that everybody goes to heaven as soon as they die. Where in the world do these people get this stuff. You'd have to be dumb on purpose to believe that garbage. I think some take preaching too lightly. I see what you're saying with "how" were you called. I believe he calls you through the Holy Ghost, that's how I was "called"; maybe lead (or is it led, don't know) is a better word)! Anyway, thanks for clarifying and taking the time to discuss God's precious word (and the mysteries therein) with me. God Bless!!

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by cb6445

I agree, strange enough, I get very nervous around crowds and avoid them at all cost. The thought of standing in front of people and doing anything gets me shaky. I understand better now what you are saying, and I completely agree. I find nowhere in God's word where anyone was called for these "ministries"! If it don't line up with God's word (KJV), they are wrong and the Bible is right. I'm like you, if you have a talent to sing and you feel the Lord leading you to sing, buy all means.......SING! Same with the rest. I just see some of these so called "preachers" saying they are called of God to preach, and.......well, you've been around long enough to know what I'm saying there. They're standing behind the sacred desk of God and preaching (if you call it that) some of the craziest stuff. I talked to a guy the other day that goes to a Baptist church down the road and he said his preacher teaches that everybody goes to heaven as soon as they die. Where in the world do these people get this stuff. You'd have to be dumb on purpose to believe that garbage. I think some take preaching too lightly. I see what you're saying with "how" were you called. I believe he calls you through the Holy Ghost, that's how I was "called"; maybe lead (or is it led, don't know) is a better word)! Anyway, thanks for clarifying and taking the time to discuss God's precious word (and the mysteries therein) with me. God Bless!!

Clint, it was late and my choice of words was wrong maybe, I know I'm out there as far as a lot of traditional fundamentalists go and didn't want to leave anyone with the impression I am some kind of theological Abby Hoffman or anything. The old time "calling", yes, is there. But I've noticed a lot of occultism creeping into the Church, which is natural and to be expected, this is war, brother, soldiers fight battles in wars. I saw many young men and women grooming their appearance and their voices and their "people skills" in college, and not a grenade, not a machine gun going off, not a spear being thrown or the clash of swords, and then the Scriptures reminded me these people know little or nothing of war in the spiritual realm, of the assaults that go on around us in the heavenlies and in the realm of the spirit. I am glad you understand and glad I was not confusing. I know the discussion on water baptism may have some of us tense, but most of you just have not gotten to get into a spiritual firefight with me next to you yet to see that we have much, much more in common than we differ.

Clint, the Scriptural proofs of what happens to a Christian at death has roots in the book of John:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Christ is saying in the first part of this verse the simple truth that we don't go to heaven at death under our own power., as a man climbing up steps, or climbing a ladder, we are taken there. And it is Scriptural doctrine that yes, the instant we die, we are in His Presence:

2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

The Watchtower, the SDA, and the Church Of Christ all teach a state of "unconsciousness" in death called Soul Sleep. I think Herbert W. Armstrong of the Worldwide Church Of God taught it too, he was ex-SDA.

There is no reason for a Christian to fear the state of death, we have not been gioven the spirit of fear, but as humans we all fear the manner in which it it occurs. None of us want to be in a plane crash, or have some vicious disease, but in the flesh we have to suffer the infirmities of it. But brother, yes, we die and are then in His Presence.

Hold fast Clint, grace and peace to you brother.

Tony

[chette777]

I have come to a point to where I realize it is the Holy Ghost job to convince people of the truth of the KJV Bible.. we can only help so far and we better be careful on how we do help too.pray for them is the most best way.

when I was first challenged to read a KJV Bible. I did not come to it hoping to prove it wrong. but I came to it asking God to show me truth. and boy did he. from that time since I have been a believer in the KJV as the preserved word of God for today

[cb6445]

I agree Bro Tony, but is that not only for those who are saved? When a sinner dies lost, does he not open his eyes in hell (Luke 16: 23), only to be resurrected to stand before God in judgement and cast into the Lake of Fire? Nevermind, I just saw where you said what happens to a "Christian" when they die. I agree, but this man was saying lost and saved go to Heaven when they die and are judged then.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by cb6445

I agree, strange enough, I get very nervous around crowds and avoid them at all cost. The thought of standing in front of people and doing anything gets me shaky. I understand better now what you are saying, and I completely agree. I find nowhere in God's word where anyone was called for these "ministries"! If it don't line up with God's word (KJV), they are wrong and the Bible is right. I'm like you, if you have a talent to sing and you feel the Lord leading you to sing, buy all means.......SING! Same with the rest. I just see some of these so called "preachers" saying they are called of God to preach, and.......well, you've been around long enough to know what I'm saying there. They're standing behind the sacred desk of God and preaching (if you call it that) some of the craziest stuff. I talked to a guy the other day that goes to a Baptist church down the road and he said his preacher teaches that everybody goes to heaven as soon as they die. Where in the world do these people get this stuff. You'd have to be dumb on purpose to believe that garbage. I think some take preaching too lightly. I see what you're saying with "how" were you called. I believe he calls you through the Holy Ghost, that's how I was "called"; maybe lead (or is it led, don't know) is a better word)! Anyway, thanks for clarifying and taking the time to discuss God's precious word (and the mysteries therein) with me. God Bless!!

Clint, I hope those ebooks will be helkful. Burgon is a little up there and needs to be read carefully, Gipp's book is very straightforward.

Grace and peace brother

Tony

[bibleprotector]

Agreed. Sam Gipp's "Answers Book" is a good starting point. Other stuff gets more detailed or technical.

[cb6445]

Hey, thanks again for those ebooks. I've not got a chance to get started on 'em but I will soon enough! My pastor has asked me to preach mother's day, so I'm studyin up for it (pray for me). We just lost about half our Church over the most childish reason (hurt feelings), and I'm pretty sure this message will not be a "favorite among the crowd." I thank you ALL again for your help on this thread! God Bless!!!

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by cb6445

Hey, thanks again for those ebooks. I've not got a chance to get started on 'em but I will soon enough! My pastor has asked me to preach mother's day, so I'm studyin up for it (pray for me). We just lost about half our Church over the most childish reason (hurt feelings), and I'm pretty sure this message will not be a "favorite among the crowd." I thank you ALL again for your help on this thread! God Bless!!!

Clint, pray for the ones who left, but remember, God Himself dismissed a large crowd of soldiers and Gideon did what he did with the 300. People have too tissue thin of feelings. If we were running for our lives and hiding to worship God, like in Roman times, we'd be a lot different. Remember always too that He and His works are seen in the creation as Romans 1 says, and my point is this: Every cell divides, what cell don;t divide is dead. If people leave a church a core will start another one, and maybe some of them will come back to you.

Read Dr. Gipp's book first, it will give you a foundation of the version controversey that THEY started, not Bible Believers.

I'll be praying and thinking of you Clint

Grace and peace brother

Tony