Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Jordan,
Greetings, I see from your website you are 19 years old.
I see you already have some answers there, now I want to ask you a question... a little over a year ago, you made the following post and later implied on that thread the KJV was full of errors:


http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4250#post4250

Now young Jordan let me ask you---in the past year, have you learned anything here that would change your mind or do you still feel the same way?

Jarrod, many of your questions have been answered here. However you never responded to my simple question above.
Now gird up your loins and answer me like a man...

[Brother Tim]

Jordan, I am going to accept your apology with one condition. Your erroneous statements were made in a very public forum, YouTube. Our forum is very, very small by comparison. Your apology here is fine, but I would ask that you prepare a video for YouTube, rescinding your earlier statements. I am not asking you to proclaim yourself a KJBO necessarily (though that would be nice) but simply explain your change of thought regarding your original video. There were a number of viewers that participated in the comments section for that video.

P.S. I would still like to discuss with you the point-of-view that you have, but the YouTube method of discussion is very clumsy compared to a forum setting. I understand that you are a PK (preacher's kid) such as I, though I am nearly three times your age. My father's teachings had a tremendous effect on the development of my own convictions, so I would assume similarly for you. I do not intend to dishonor your background training, but even pastors can be wrong.

[George]

Aloha brother Steven (peopleoftheway),

Thanks for the info and your comments. The difference between a genuine Bible believer and a Bible denier comes shining through for all to see, when we behold Posts like yours and other Bible believers on the Forum and those "Christians" who come here bent on casting doubt on God's words, and who would have us believe that there is NO BOOK on earth that is God's Holy word without error.

Although I am the "old curmudgeon", I am not so old that (when I was a boy) Printing was done i.e. "set" by hand (each individual letter by letter - as in the 1,400's, 1,500's, 1,600's, 1,700's, 1,800's and even into the early 1,900's).

I took up printing in high school (1955-57), and we actually "set type" (metal - not wood) "by hand" using a "California Job Case", where each word was made up by taking (by hand) each individual letter and placing them together (by hand) to form each word {An operation (mostly mechanical) which was quite susceptible to "printing errors"; which, because I have actually done these things, I have a personal understanding as to how and why these so-called "errors" occurred}.

I also worked as a "Printer-Linotype Operator on a Newspaper (The Garden Island) on the Island of Kauai (1961-65), where they still used the "California Job Case" ("hand type") for some of the Ads (fancy "type faces", i.e. "Fonts") in the Newspaper, and for small Printing Jobs. Printing "errors" are meaningless to me. The fact that a word is misspelled, or is, or isn't, capitalized may be of some import to "gnat strainers" - but, having "been there, and done that", I understand HOW these so-called "errors" came about, and personally they have never "bothered" me much; and I am sure that they haven't "bothered" our God that much either, seeing how He has blessed the use of ALL King James Bibles (regardless of "misspellings").

Since most of the younger generation of "Christians" have NO IDEA how Printing was accomplished in days gone by, they "think" that all things must be like they are today (with all of our modern "conveniences"), and so they have absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING as to "HOW" words could have been misspelled, and so they CRITICIZE God's Holy words in the King James Bible because of their IGNORANCE. They are in a word - "HYPER-CRITICAL"!

"Ignorance is bliss", when it comes to some matters; but when it comes to criticizing the Holy words of God, "ignorance" is no longer bliss, it is a "curse" (for those who "criticize") and "stumbling block" (for those who "stumble" at what the Gnat strainers say).

One of the "proofs" of our love for our Lord is IF WE "KEEP" HIS "WORDS", the modern day Bible deniers are going to have a day of it at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" trying to convince the KING of Kings and LORD of Lords that they "NEVER had His words - because they NEVER could find them"!

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

[peopleoftheway]

You are absolutely right George, many of today's younger generation when questioning the "so called errors" in the KJB fail to recognise that many of the errors were simply printing errors not textual errors, I am confident that printing back then was a very laborious time consuming process, that due to mans fallibility, errors were expected (I can imagine the printers being so weary and tired that they actually placed text blocks upside down)
When I started in the graphic design business (Sign trade to be exact) there were not computer aided plotters to cut out vinyl lettering so each individual Font had to be placed in a machine and plotted using x / y co-ordinates and a simple shop sign or menu board would take a great deal of time and patience, yet now in the same trade, many signs are now full colour digital images done in a fraction of the time (making them again easier to check for spelling and grammatical errors)
In fact I remember doing Church signs (Sunday service Boards and misspelling scripture) These errors were plainly my errors in printing them, not errors in Gods word.

One of the "proofs" of our love for our Lord is IF WE "KEEP" HIS "WORDS", the modern day Bible deniers are going to have a day of it at the "Judgment Seat of Christ" trying to convince the KING of Kings and LORD of Lords that they "NEVER had His words - because they NEVER could find
them"!

John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

God Bless you and yours Brother

[Jordan]

Originally Posted by bibleprotector

Yes, Scrivener's has no verse divisions but paragraphs: he also changes many words, including changes to the underlying text as presented English, as well as casting doubt upon 1 John 5:7, etc.

So then I shouldn't read it...or...? I don't have any other Bibles...

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Jordan

So then I shouldn't read it...or...? I don't have any other Bibles...

Jordan, I see your 1873 as being historical, just as I have told dozens who saw the light on the correct Scriptures, to keep their NIVs and NASBs. A friend bought a New Scofield "King James" that is neither Scofield or King James. I told him, keep it. It's evidence.

Wanna deal on a KJV? If you want the full deluxe get a leather bound(stay away from "bonded" leather, it's chunks of leather ground up and then sprayed on), if you want one to check out go out to Family Dollar, Dollar General, or Odd Lots. 5, 7 bucks for a new KJV. Garage sales are good, used bookstores are better. I think there were like 9 editions of the NIV, I had all of them. I had the JW bibles back to 1960, and the one they put out in the 1950s. I still have my parallel Revised Version NT of 1885, dated 1885 with Westcott and Hort's English RV and the KJV next to it, leather bound with gold lettering on the cover.

Best KJV computer Bible is Swordsearcher. I use the Online Bible for looking a verse up real quick, and E-Sword has the most modules for NIV, NASB, etc. I have 42 translations on E-Sword, I used Swordsearcher for serious study, it's the best, period.

I found my list of versions I used to have. I had 136 versions of the bible in English, counting the KJV. !35 of those were translated from the corrupted Alexandrian text that is based on Vaticanus for the NT. The OT followed in each and every one Kittel's corruptions of the corrupted ben Asher text. The correct OT text in Hebrew is the Massoretic text of Jacob ben Chayim which is the OT text underlying the KJV.

Grace and peace to you.

Tony

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Jordan

So then I shouldn't read it...or...? I don't have any other Bibles...

A King James can be had at your local Wal mart for the price of a couple Big Mac's. I have seen KJ at the christian bookstores for as little as $4.95,so there is really no excuse for not having Gods word.

Sometimes its easier to ditch all the ecumenical,charismatic,liberalistic nonsense the world throws at you and go back to the basics,a KJ Bible and a Bible Believing church.

I will have to agree with Bro. Tim. May God help you find your way.

[George]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

Jordan, I am going to accept your apology with one condition. Your erroneous statements were made in a very public forum, YouTube. Our forum is very, very small by comparison. Your apology here is fine, but I would ask that you prepare a video for YouTube, rescinding your earlier statements. I am not asking you to proclaim yourself a KJBO necessarily (though that would be nice) but simply explain your change of thought regarding your original video. There were a number of viewers that participated in the comments section for that video.

P.S. I would still like to discuss with you the point-of-view that you have, but the YouTube method of discussion is very clumsy compared to a forum setting. I understand that you are a PK (preacher's kid) such as I, though I am nearly three times your age. My father's teachings had a tremendous effect on the development of my own convictions, so I would assume similarly for you. I do not intend to dishonor your background training, but even pastors can be wrong.

Aloha Brother Tim,

Again, I find myself in complete agreement with you.

A PUBLIC CONDEMNATION is in need of a PUBLIC APOLOGY and a PUBLIC ADMISSION of Jordan's "error".

Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Mark 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.

Luke 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.

John 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

The Apostle Peter was truly sorry for his sin of denying Christ, but you will notice: Just as he denied the Lord THREE TIMES - he was made to "affirm" his love for Christ THREE TIMES. It wasn't just - Gee I'm "sorry".

Notice the "difference" between "true repentance" (Peter's) and that of Judas' "repentance":

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Judas acknowledged that he was wrong, and that he had sinned - BUT, he didn't turn to God for forgiveness (he went to the "Priests" {men} instead); he didn't turn away from his "sin" (and weep bitterly over it), instead he "repented himself" and then went and hung himself. An "admission of guilt" is NOT enough, there must be a corresponding action on the part of the guilty one. In Peter's case it was confessing to the Lord (in front of the disciples) that he (Peter) truly loved Him. And just as he (Peter) denied the Lord three times, the Lord had him confess to his (Peter's) love for Him - three times.

There are no hard/fast rules to genuine repentance, but the Holy Scriptures give us examples of true repentance (Peter and King David - for example) and false repentance (Judas & King Saul - for example). "Repentance" can be to truth and life, or it can be to error and death. It all depends as to WHAT is in the heart of the one who is doing the "repenting".

[George]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

A King James can be had at your local Wal mart for the price of a couple Big Mac's. I have seen KJ at the christian bookstores for as little as $4.95,so there is really no excuse for not having Gods word.

Sometimes its easier to ditch all the ecumenical,charismatic,liberalistic nonsense the world throws at you and go back to the basics,a KJ Bible and a Bible Believing church.

I will have to agree with Bro. Tim. May God help you find your way.

Aloha brother Jeremy,

I have discovered that you can find a real "good deal" on a quality used King James Bible on e-Bay (Look under - "Books": King James Bibles; or KJV Bible; or Used King James Bibles). You have to discriminate between the "hucksters" (selling their "goods") and individuals selling used King James Bibles, but in the last 3 months I have bought several excellent quality used Bibles at reasonable prices. {Cambridge Bibles sell at the highest prices, followed by Oxford}.

If you limit your search to King James Bibles you won't get as many modern versions, however there are some people who will "sneak" a m.v. in there once in a while. {Watch out for the "NEW" King James Version!}

[Brother Tim]

Open comments to Jordan regarding apology and the latest video.

1 ) You would have a great future in politics.

2 ) You continue to generalize, and claim "facts" which are not.

3 ) You REALLY NEED TO DO some in depth study of the history of the texts behind the modern versions.

4 ) Things that are different are not the same. If the NIV is missing a verse which the KJB has, THEY BOTH CANNOT BE GOD'S WORD!

5 ) In the above post, you said, (brackets and underlining mine)

So then I shouldn't read it [Scrivener's edition or the KJB]...or...? I don't have any other Bibles...

yet on your latest video, you said at the 3:15 mark, "..I have a lot of King James Bibles..."

WHICH STATEMENT IS TRUE, Jordan?