[tonybones2112]

[QUOTE=George;18099]Aloha brother Tony,

Before you waste very much time with "Jordan", you should review his previous "Threads: & "Posts" to see "WHERE he is coming from" and to get "a handle" on WHAT kind of person he is. WATCH OUT for the "GOTCHA" - this young man doesn't have an honest or sincere BONE in his entire body! {Check out his website - It's all about JORDAN!}

Brother, you "can bet your bottom dollar" that Jordan already knows about Origen, and is just going to "play along" or "string you along" (and others) until he sees the right moment to "pounce" and display his cunning craftiness for all to see (once again).

You're a good soldier for Christ brother George. Your desire that all come to the knowledge of the truth is sincere and like all of us, we want everyone to be aware of the truth. I thank you for this message.

I've dealt with many teens, I used to be one. If you judge me by my taste in cars and my love for Gibson and Fender guitars, I'm still 22. when I got my Swordsearcher in the mail, I was like a kid on Xmas morning and spent 4 somewhat sleepless days learning it, so much so that I forgot the difference between Origen and Eusebius I just don't see Jordan as a knowing agent of Satan and Zondervan Press is all. He's a young man and I know it takes patience. My Dad used to say, don't beat a dog for being a dog. I don't think you can scourge a teen for being a teen and having questions. You probably don't know this but I held the fort against a gentleman goes by the ID of Robycop3 in all the anti-KJV forums. Tim knows Roby. I ain't had the pleasure of meeting Ransom yet, I hear he is worse than Roby. He should make me a good breakfast too. You have to boil tough meat in water first before you fry it. Sometimes teens seek self esteem in taking on their elders. When I was Jordan's age and before, I taught guerrilla war to men twice my age and sometimes three times. I'm a bit hard to sneak up on. Last time I got ambushed was when I lost everything I owned and worked for in my life in an estate theft BY the state, a judge, and 2 lawyers because I believed in truth, justice, and the American Way. I assure you that will never happen again. One of the lawyers was supposed to have been working for ME.

If Jordan has any questions and wants to direct them to me, I'll be glad to answer them to the best of my ability. None of us are born Christians, God don't have any grandchildren. None of us are born with the knowledge of how to get through day to day life encoded in our DNA. We learn to look both ways crossing a street if we have been run over a few times. Jordan wants to express himself like 4 billion others on the web. His site is a lot tamer than many MYSPACE sites I have seen. If a person comes to this forum and baits people for a laugh, that's their deficit, not the forum's. If I lose through patience I'd rather do that than win with a steamroller, because I haven't really won anything. I'd rather err on the side of long-suffering.

So Jordan, what would you like to talk about dude?

Grace and peace

Tony

[CKG]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

I stand corrected, I may have my heretics mixed up.

Grace and peace

Tony

I have only a very basic knowledge of manuscript history. A few years back I wrote a paper as an introduction to the KJV issue and for some reason Origen and Eusebius are still etched in my memory.

FOR JORDAN

If you're really and sincerely interested in the KJV then do some research. Here are a couple of sites for starters -

http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/holland.htm


http://www.christianmissionconnectio...dy_topics.html
Look under “Why We Use the Authorized King James Version of the Holy Scriptures” and you will find several PDF files concerning the KJV.

[George]

Aloha brother Tony,

It looks to me that you and I have much in common (when it comes to the government, financial status, etc.) but, there is one area where I will disagree (to some extent) with you and brother Tim and that is in continuing to "coddle" those "Christians" ("err on the side of long-suffering") who are determined to correct, disparage, criticize, demean, denigrate and tear down God's Holy word.

I refuse to "engage" these kind of "Christians" (whether 18 or 88) in "a meaningful dialogue", because it is a complete waste of time. I have 7 (out of 17) grandchildren that are "Jordan's" age (or older). My wife and I have raised seven children of our own, and I have observed how Humanistic psychiatry/psychology has crept into "Christian" homes and destroyed any meaningful Biblical discipline/correction to the point where young men and women are treated as "children" into their twenties!

We have two young men on the Forum (there may be more) - Paladin54 & Cody1611 who are close to "Jordan's" age and who, either one of them would make a father (or grandfather ) proud. There is NO EXCUSING "Jordan's" behavior (because he is young). Guile, deceit, cunning, and craftiness are the product of a deceitful heart, and I have found that the "soft approach" (psychiatry/psychology) not only DOES NOT WORK, but generally speaking it only makes things WORSE!

Paul said:

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

But on the other hand he also said to: "rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" [Titus 1:13]

Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

And again he stated:

"These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee." [Titus 2:15]

In reference to sinning elders (i.e. pastors) he commanded:

"Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." [1 Timothy 5:20]

Is there a "contradiction" in our Bible? Of course NOT! Then what is going on? It's called having "spiritual discernment" - there are times (and people) where we are to be gentle, patient, etc. and there are other times (and people) where we are to draw the Sword of the Spirit and have at it.

Generally speaking, when I first encounter "Christians" on the Forum or elsewhere out in the world, I try to be gentle and patient (as I did with "Jordan" when he first showed up on the Forum - check out Jordan's Thread "Some People Should Realize" and my comments on Post #3).

But there comes a time when "gentleness" and "patience" is no longer called for, i.e. when there is a concerted and determined effort on the part of a "Christian" to continue correcting the word of God; or worse yet, where they will attack it or tear it down; or when they continue to insist on justifying some obvious wrongdoing (or sin) on their part (like recommending hereticks). And when that time arrives, 2 Timothy 2:23-26 no longer applies (or it will lead to compromise).

When "Christians" reach the point described above it's time for:

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

That time is HERE! That time is NOW! Coddling "False Teachers" (no matter what age) is unscriptural. "Tough love" (reproving & rebuking) is both appropriate and Biblical, we just have to know when and where (and to whom) to do it, and again I say - that takes "spiritual discernment".

When we are out on the street (in amongst "them" - so to speak) in their territory, and in their "home" (so to speak); we have to take a whole lot of abuse. However, when someone joins this Forum (Our Territory - Our "Home", so to speak) that's a whole different story! They are joining an "AV1611 Bible Forum"; and if they can't have the courtesy to respect the fact that we believe The Bible (A BOOK that we can hold in our hands); if they show disrespect to God's Holy words or to brethren on the Forum; if they promote heresy and false doctrine (or hereticks & false teachers); and if they are disingenuous, cunning, crafty, and demonstrate no genuine interest in the truth; I for one will NOT "forbear" and tolerate their inconsiderate, tactless, thoughtless, and sometimes blasphemous "attitude" (no matter what age).

Paladin54 and Cody1611 are good examples of young Christian men; if James & John (the sons of Zebedee) could faithfully follow the Saviour at a very young age - there is NO EXCUSE for a young "Christian" joining a Bible believing Forum and through subterfuge and deceit "pretend" to be something (or someone) he is not. Especially when he claims that our Holy Bible has errors in it!

There is a time to be patient and gentle, and there is a time to reprove and rebuke, it's NOT ALL patience and gentleness - "no matter what". There are any where's from 2 to 5 times amount of "guests" on the Forum as there are "members"; we cannot let the "gainsayers" get away with their attacks and false doctrines without challenging them and contending for our faith. Otherwise, there will be no edification - only chaos and anarchy!

You said: "I'd rather err on the side of long-suffering." I would rather not err at all! I would rather exercise "spiritual discernment" and follow Paul's example and be kind, patient, and gentle, to those people that the Scriptures indicate should be treated that way; and I shall continue to preach, teach, and warn "Christians", but also (when the Scriptures indicate the need) I will continue to "admonish" (and if that doesn't work); then "reprove" (and if that doesn't work); and at last resort "rebuke" (if necessary).

There are "Christians" that we should AVOID [Romans 16:17]; there are "Christians" that we should SHUN [1 Corinthians 11-13]; and their are "Christian" hereticks and "false teachers" that we should REJECT [Titus 3:10]!

We are living in perilous times, when the "truth" is being questioned and attacked both "within" and without of the churches. I see no reason why we should "tolerate" this blasphemy on this Forum.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

[Fredoheaven]

Originally Posted by George

Aloha brother Tony,

It looks to me that you and I have much in common (when it comes to the government, financial status, etc.) but, there is one area where I will disagree (to some extent) with you and brother Tim and that is in continuing to "coddle" those "Christians" ("err on the side of long-suffering") who are determined to correct, disparage, criticize, demean, denigrate and tear down God's Holy word.

I refuse to "engage" these kind of "Christians" (whether 18 or 88) in "a meaningful dialogue", because it is a complete waste of time. I have 7 (out of 17) grandchildren that are "Jordan's" age (or older). My wife and I have raised seven children of our own, and I have observed how Humanistic psychiatry/psychology has crept into "Christian" homes and destroyed any meaningful Biblical discipline/correction to the point where young men and women are treated as "children" into their twenties!

We have two young men on the Forum (there may be more) - Paladin54 & Cody1611 who are close to "Jordan's" age and who, either one of them would make a father (or grandfather ) proud. There is NO EXCUSING "Jordan's" behavior (because he is young). Guile, deceit, cunning, and craftiness are the product of a deceitful heart, and I have found that the "soft approach" (psychiatry/psychology) not only DOES NOT WORK, but generally speaking it only makes things WORSE!

Paul said:
But on the other hand he also said to: "rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" [Titus 1:13]

And again he stated:
In reference to sinning elders (i.e. pastors) he commanded: Is there a "contradiction" in our Bible? Of course NOT! Then what is going on? It's called having "spiritual discernment" - there are times (and people) where we are to be gentle, patient, etc. and there are other times (and people) where we are to draw the Sword of the Spirit and have at it.

Generally speaking, when I first encounter "Christians" on the Forum or elsewhere out in the world, I try to be gentle and patient (as I did with "Jordan" when he first showed up on the Forum - check out Jordan's Thread "Some People Should Realize" and my comments on Post #3).

But there comes a time when "gentleness" and "patience" is no longer called for, i.e. when there is a concerted and determined effort on the part of a "Christian" to continue correcting the word of God; or worse yet, where they will attack it or tear it down; or when they continue to insist on justifying some obvious wrongdoing (or sin) on their part (like recommending hereticks). And when that time arrives, 2 Timothy 2:23-26 no longer applies (or it will lead to compromise).

When "Christians" reach the point described above it's time for:

That time is HERE! That time is NOW! Coddling "False Teachers" (no matter what age) is unscriptural. "Tough love" (reproving & rebuking) is both appropriate and Biblical, we just have to know when and where (and to whom) to do it, and again I say - that takes "spiritual discernment".

When we are out on the street (in amongst "them" - so to speak) in their territory, and in their "home" (so to speak); we have to take a whole lot of abuse. However, when someone joins this Forum (Our Territory - Our "Home", so to speak) that's a whole different story! They are joining an "AV1611 Bible Forum"; and if they can't have the courtesy to respect the fact that we believe The Bible (A BOOK that we can hold in our hands); if they show disrespect to God's Holy words or to brethren on the Forum; if they promote heresy and false doctrine (or hereticks & false teachers); and if they are disingenuous, cunning, crafty, and demonstrate no genuine interest in the truth; I for one will NOT "forbear" and tolerate their inconsiderate, tactless, thoughtless, and sometimes blasphemous "attitude" (no matter what age).

Paladin54 and Cody1611 are good examples of young Christian men; if James & John (the sons of Zebedee) could faithfully follow the Saviour at a very young age - there is NO EXCUSE for a young "Christian" joining a Bible believing Forum and through subterfuge and deceit "pretend" to be something (or someone) he is not. Especially when he claims that our Holy Bible has errors in it!

There is a time to be patient and gentle, and there is a time to reprove and rebuke, it's NOT ALL patience and gentleness - "no matter what". There are any where's from 2 to 5 times amount of "guests" on the Forum as there are "members"; we cannot let the "gainsayers" get away with their attacks and false doctrines without challenging them and contending for our faith. Otherwise, there will be no edification - only chaos and anarchy!

You said: "I'd rather err on the side of long-suffering." I would rather not err at all! I would rather exercise "spiritual discernment" and follow Paul's example and be kind, patient, and gentle, to those people that the Scriptures indicate should be treated that way; and I shall continue to preach, teach, and warn "Christians", but also (when the Scriptures indicate the need) I will continue to "admonish" (and if that doesn't work); then "reprove" (and if that doesn't work); and at last resort "rebuke" (if necessary).

There are "Christians" that we should AVOID [Romans 16:17]; there are "Christians" that we should SHUN [1 Corinthians 11-13]; and their are "Christian" hereticks and "false teachers" that we should REJECT [Titus 3:10]!

We are living in perilous times, when the "truth" is being questioned and attacked both "within" and without of the churches. I see no reason why we should "tolerate" this blasphemy on this Forum.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

Brother, thanks for this post. This can also be a great blessing to me. Verily, I can use and share this in my Bible Study. Here in one of my Home Bible Study, there is like that of Jordan. He just come and ask/ raised many questions, (actually not listening at all) to provoke me into a debate. I see his real purpose ie. to distract the new believers. So, I want this in our next meeting to become my topic so that they could erlier be warned. Again Thanks and God bless you...


Jude 25
www.fredsites.weebly.com

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Samuel

The two mainstays of the Alexanderian text the Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, do not even agree with each other. The Sinaiticus was found in a trash dump, at a catholic monastery at the foot of Mt. Sinai in 1844. The other in the Vatican vaults at the time of Erasmus, he was offered them but refused. Due to the apparent corruption.

There are hundreds of strike outs, eliminations of whole verses, and rewrites. Neither copy has the whole Bible.

Wescott and Hort used these two codex to make their Greek New Testament, which is even more corrupt than the original text. Which is the backbone of all the Modern Versions of the Bible. Even the NKJV, which does not follow the TR faithfully, regardless of advertisement that it does.

Thanks Sam, i can understand this. The History on our English Bible is fascinating,and how it led up to our KJB.

It's difficult for me to get a good grasp on the Greek Text in which our Bible came from (Antioch)and the other Greek Text that was Corrupt,from Alexandria,Egypt. also something called the Hexapla that Origen came up with.

I am just thick headed. Eventually it will sink in.

[Jordan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIzmRvAeDJM

God bless brothers

[peopleoftheway]

I could only watch about the first 2 minutes of your rambling and stumbling ironically every time you went to mention the KJB as NOT the Word of God you somehow stumbled on your words and called it the Word Of God. Your points raised in your VIDEO are so easily addressed and refuted, but to be quite honest I don't think if the truth was delivered to you you would accept it, you seem more interested in the latest growing trend of apostate Christians who desire FAME by any means, moreso off Video Blogs on Youtube. How can you be so callous as to post a link with "God bless Brothers" AND wilfully try and defame the name of Christ (promoting bibles that diminish and remove the name above all names JESUS CHRIST)and the Word of God which we all Hold as our final authority for all matters of faith and practice (NOT 200 + versions any will do !even if they contradict each other and remove entire verses and words, not just correct SPELLING and grammar as the REVISIONS of the KJB have done)
Friend we DO NOT idolize the KJB
1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
we KNOW it IS the WORD OF GOD! and freely accept the truth.
You are most certainly a bitter young man who I pray has his eyes open to the truth.

Proverbs 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Instead of spending time making pointless Videos against The Body Of Christ, why not spend real time researching with an OPEN mind as to the Bible version issue and let Gods Spirit SHOW YOU YOUR ERROR. By posting this video you may have appeared as some righteous Guy to whoever is stupid enough to digest your guile, but I will tell you one thing you cannot fool an almighty Sovereign God

1 Peter 3:10 For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Pay attention
1 Peter 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
1 Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

I most certainly know that most of the Brethren on this forum are praying that your eyes are opened and you cease with your attack and maligning of Gods Word, not for our sake but FOR YOUR SAKE.

I will tell you by the Word Of God why I cannot stand what apostate Christians like yourself behave like.

Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

You go right ahead Jordan and keep posting your Videos, NONE on this forum having known the truth will EVER revert to reading a diminished translation full of Philosophy and vain deceit, in which Christ's name is REMOVED many times, in which the Godhead is attacked and diminished and in which HIS BLOOD, in which OUR sins are washed has been REMOVED from modern counterfeits
Good luck with your pursuit of becoming a YOUTUBE celebrity you are well on your way to becoming a Modern Laodicean apostate Video Preacher (your calling not the Lords), who's desires are their own belly.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I certainly would agree with George as to NOT molly coddle this young man, he does not appear as one who seeks the truth.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Jordan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIzmRvAeDJM

God bless brothers

I should have seen this coming,when you were offended over the christian rock business.

You would think your time could have been better spent washing dishes than sitting on youtube creating more dissension among the brethren.

[Brother Tim]

Well, George, I must eat crow here. I was willing to give a young man some space to get a little learning and growth. You saw one who was already hardening against the truth. I yield to your experience, for he has revealed himself.

[tonybones2112]

[QUOTE=George;18161]Aloha brother Tony,

It looks to me that you and I have much in common (when it comes to the government, financial status, etc.) but, there is one area where I will disagree (to some extent) with you and brother Tim and that is in continuing to "coddle" those "Christians" ("err on the side of long-suffering") who are determined to correct, disparage, criticize, demean, denigrate and tear down God's Holy word.

I refuse to "engage" these kind of "Christians" (whether 18 or 88) in "a meaningful dialogue", because it is a complete waste of time. I have 7 (out of 17) grandchildren that are "Jordan's" age (or older). My wife and I have raised seven children of our own, and I have observed how Humanistic psychiatry/psychology has crept into "Christian" homes and destroyed any meaningful Biblical discipline/correction to the point where young men and women are treated as "children" into their twenties!

George, thank you for the message, you bring out points and Scripture that Jordan, and all viewing this thread need to see. Jordan has, unfortunately, reached Childhood's End. He is no longer a child, but a man, legally. I have two questions for Jordan that I am sure he can achieve grow even more as he answers.

Grace and peace brother,

Tony