The Body or Bride? - Page 10

Biblestudent · 03-18-2009, 09:01 AM

Thanks, Bro. Chette! I didn't know you were "grading" my thesis. I wish you were my Bible school teacher; none ever gave me an A+ in my Bible school years!

tonybones2112 · 03-18-2009, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biblestudent

If it is true that Christ "will marry" the church, why then are we "married" (Rom.7) and IS "one flesh" (Eph 5) with Him right NOW.

Again, here is a CLEAR, DEFINITE Scripture that tells us of a FUTURE MARRIAGE BETWEEN GOD AND THE NATION (AS WELL AS THE LAND) OF ISRAEL.

Isaiah 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and THY LAND SHALL BE MARRIED.
Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so SHALL thy God rejoice over thee.

"Shall" - FUTURE TENSEPlease answer this: When will Isaiah 62:4,5 be fulfilled?

That's my position and I don't have anything to add to it. Anyone who wants to believe they are part of the Catering Party At The Wedding Of the Lamb is fine with me, it's not going to earn one more reward or cause the loss thereof. It's when a group of people band together and cloister themselves off as being better than other Christians, which is the experience I had with Bride Churches, is where I speak out. My post-Church Of Christ experiences were with Name It Claim It Pentecostals who said I didn't have the "full" gospel and then a Bride Church where I offered to help and was a knothole in a pew. I'll sit here with you, brother, and be content with my Partial Gospel and being a member of the Groom.

Grace and peace friends

Tony

kevinvw · 03-18-2009, 03:28 PM

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

You keep using this verse to support your position that Israel the Bride, but it's an incomplete statement by itself. Notice the comma after the word son. You need to complete the sentence to get the complete teaching of the parable.

Biblestudent · 03-18-2009, 10:14 PM

Matthew 22:2 explains the LITERAL "kingdom of heaven" using the parable (FIGURATIVE) of a "king which made a marriage for his son".

The meaning of the whole parable is "the kingdom of heaven". Every fundamental Bible scholar believes the "kingdom of heaven" is the Millennial reign of Christ. That means, the Millennium is LIKE a marriage.

Furthermore, not once the word "church", "body", or "head" show up here.
What I read as written is: "kingdom of heaven", "king", "son", "marriage", and "servants".

I think it's either Scofield or Larkin who said Christ is not "King of the Church" but "Head of the Church".

The Body of Christ (Church) has a Head; the nation (Israel) has a King.

Biblestudent · 03-18-2009, 10:36 PM

I don't have time yet to go deeper into this or to consult commentaries, but reading it as written, here is what I can say about what it's saying:

Matthew 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Interpretation: God offered the kingdom ("marriage") to Israel but "they would not".

4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Interpretation: "The kingdom of heaven" was at hand ("all things are ready"), but Israel killed the prophets and the apostles; so God "burned up their city" (fulfilled in A.D. 70?)

8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Interpretation:
During the Gospels and Acts period, the "wedding" (kingdom) "is ready" (is at hand), but "they which are bidden" (Jews during that period) "were not worthy".
In the Tribulation period, the gospel of "the kingdom of heaven" will once again be proclaimed. At the second coming, both "good and bad" will be present. (Compare this with Matthew 25, "sheep and goats" -judgment of the nations, as well as Matthew 13 parables where angels were sent to gather the "tares and the wheat", the children of the kingdom and the children of the wicked one).
At the Second Coming (which starts the "wedding", the Millennium), those who have no "wedding garment" ("righteousness of the saints", Rev. 19) will be gathered by the angels ("servants", Mat. 13, 22) and cast into the lake of fire. This fits Revelation 19 and 20.

kevinvw · 10:53 PM

Quit putting words in my mouth because I'm sick of it. I never said that the words "church" "head" or "body" were in the passage. Now if you would read the passage, it's talking about guests, not a bride. I already wrote an entire post on Matthew 22 and 25, and I don't feel like repeating myself. They teach that Jews of the Tribulation are going to be guests, so if Israel is the bride, then some of Israel is getting left out. The word bride doesn't show up in either passage, which is what you keep making a big fuss about, so why are you even using these passages to support your position?

kevinvw · 03-18-2009, 10:52 PM

Those unprofitable servents are at the wedding, so they can't be the sheeps and goats because Jesus Christ doesn't come back to earth with His angels to sit on the throne of His glory until after the wedding is done.

Biblestudent · 11:03 PM

Brother Kevin,
God uses figures of speech as he sees fit.

In Matthew 22:2, the "kingdom of heaven" is likened to a "marriage".
In Matthew 25:1, the "kingdom of heaven" is likened unto "ten virgins".
In Matthew 25:14, the "kingdom of heaven" is likened to "a man traveling".
In Matthew 13:14, the "kingdom of heaven" is likened to "a man which sowed".
In Matthew 13:31, the "kingdom of heaven" is likened to "a mustard seed".
And so on.

Let me ask you Brother Kevin.
Is the kingdom a marriage, ten virgins, a traveling man, a sower, or a seed?

Here is your problem. You took the figure of a wedding and try to make a doctrine out of it. Israel are "guests" so they can't be the "bride"? May I volunteer to be a pianist of the marriage of the Lamb?

Now, how about the other figures? If the kingdom is like a traveling man, don't tell me you have to make Gentiles the driver, Israel the tourists,

Doctrine first, brother, and let the figure fit into it. Take note that each figure adds, as well as repeats, different details. Context will determine the meaning.

DOCTRINE: God offering the kingdom of heaven to Israel
FIGURE that tells about different DETAILS: marriage, ten virgins, sower, traveling man, etc.

(By the way, the parable of the TEN virgins fit the judgment of the nations (GENTILES) at the Second Coming. TEN is the number of Gentiles.)

kevinvw · 03-18-2009, 11:02 PM

I believe that those words have a specific meaning behind, and that you can search the scriptures and find something that has to do with those words and it would be exactly that which He was talking about. The marriage and the virgins are as clear as crystal unless you're trying to shove them into the Millennium, which they aren't in the Millennium. The virgins are the Tribulation Jews, and the marriage happens just before the Second Advent before the Millennium kingdom gets set up.

kevinvw · 11:18 PM

Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

This is a specific warning to Tribulation Jews, so why would it be to the Gentiles in the Millennium? The context is the the Tribulation because they're waiting for the bridegroom to go to a wedding feast (Luke 12:35-38). It has nothing to do with Gentiles.

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