[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Yep, I figure it has to be the great white throne judgment in the future. I don't think the confidence for believers in 2 Corinthians 5:8 applies to all men. When the unrepentant die they are placed "on second death row" into a temporary holding place (prison) to suffer until they are judged down the road.

I agree that 2 Cori 5:8 is only for believers, being "present with the Lord" is a privileged position indeed, but I'm not convinced that the unsaved don't "meet" God immediately after death.

Amos 4:11 I have overthrown some of you, as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah, and ye were as a firebrand plucked out of the burning: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the LORD. 12 Therefore thus will I do unto thee, O Israel: and because I will do this unto thee, prepare to meet thy God, O Israel.

When an unsaved man's soul leaves his body, surely God explains to him why he is sending him to hell, and that explanation in itself would be a judgment.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian

When an unsaved man's soul leaves his body, surely God explains to him why he is sending him to hell, and that explanation in itself would be a judgment.

I think that's certainly possible, or it could be an angel with the message, or some creature in charge of hell who greets them with the bad news. God uses messengers sometimes. Either way, it's an unpleasant thought for sure brother.

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

...or some creature in charge of hell who greets them with the bad news.

And that creature wouldn't happen to be a talking invertebrate animal with a long, soft body and no legs by any chance, would it?

[chette777]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Rev. 12:10 will give a hint, but not necessarily the complete answer.
Like I said before, the "location" of these things is a bit cloudy.

well if they are dead they are not the accused in Rev12:10. The context of Rev 12:10 the brethren is Israel on earth not lost men in hell. verse 11 lets us know that the loving not their lives was their requirement for salvation after Christ's blood and their Testimony. these are those that the souls under the altar are waiting for to be complete in Revelation 6.

Day and night would signify that it is taking place Now until Rev 20:2. and during the 7 year Great Tribulation. the woman mentioned at the beginning of this chapter and at the end is Israel. who is spoken of in Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

He most definitely could not be at the Great White throne Judgement accusing anyone.

[chette777]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

I think that's certainly possible, or it could be an angel with the message, or some creature in charge of hell who greets them with the bad news. God uses messengers sometimes. Either way, it's an unpleasant thought for sure brother.

As we looked through the scriptures on hell not once did we see anyone in charge of hell.

the belief that Satan or any being is in charge of hell comes not from the Bible but from Greek, Roman and Norse mythology just to name a few. Dante's Inferno also supports such. All world mythologies except Afircan have a hell type place. Jews had a two compartment, the Greek had a multi compartment as did Rome, and Norse had nine with a half blue face half black faced Hel in charge

while there may indeed be a personage in charge they are not there to torment anyone or torture as Kenneth Copland, Hagen, or Elizabeth Baxter claims in her book "Divine Revelation of Hell". For the flames and the worm are appointed for that purpose

We know that Angels are given the escorts for lost to cast them into the Lake of Fire. for we are told that the angles gather them like sticks and cast hem into the fire.

Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian

And that creature wouldn't happen to be a talking invertebrate animal with a long, soft body and no legs by any chance, would it?

LOL, Kiwi you are a rascal, brother....

Originally Posted by chette777
As we looked through the scriptures on hell not once did we see anyone in charge of hell.

Really? And here I was thinking that Rosie O'Donnell would take over the job eventually...

[chette777]

If i put my money on it. I would say God is in charge of The lake of fire or eternal punishment.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian

I'm not so sure that the new earth with be an exact duplicate geographically of this present one, I don't think the scripture necessitates it. Can you please post the verses you have in mind about this eternal land grant brother Tony?

The lake of fire will not be burning until after the existing elements burn up and the great white throne judgment takes place, so technically it doesn't even exist yet!

Revelation says that there shall be no more sea(that big one that borders North Africa, western Asia, and southern Europe I have trouble spelling, lol) yet the location of the Land Of Promise remains constant. Matt, I'd say, if the lake does not burn during the Millenium, then the REAL "Big Bang" of Peter is the ignition point, that you just pointed out to us!!! I believe many locations and mysteries from the Bible are found in it and can easily be pointed out on earth. Just a little excercise in study, I think the Dead Sea is/will be the lake of fire. for one thing, it is the evil "dead" who will roast in it. For what purpose is the, as far as algae and aquatic life, a totally "dead" body of water bordering the Land Of Promise?

The eternal land grant to Abraham is found in Genisis 17:1-8.

1 ¶ And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
4 ¶ As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 ¶ And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Grace and peace brother.

Tony

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Revelation says that there shall be no more sea (that big one that borders North Africa, western Asia, and southern Europe I have trouble spelling, lol) yet the location of the Land Of Promise remains constant.

There is more than one "sea" on this earth, I think you'll find that the "sea" in Rev 21:1 is a reference to the huge body of water above the firmament which is "frozen" in Job 38:30-31, this sea is "the deep" of Genesis 1:2.

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Matt, I'd say, if the lake does not burn during the Millenium, then the REAL "Big Bang" of Peter is the ignition point, that you just pointed out to us!!!

Good observation Tony, but looking at this again I stand corrected and find that the first mention of the lake of fire buring is Rev 19:20 which happens at the end of the Tribulation at the battle of Armageddon!

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So it looks like it WILL be burning during the Millennium.

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

The eternal land grant to Abraham is found in Genisis 17:1-8.

Yep, and Psalms 105:8-11 also...

He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant: Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance:

God keeps his promises. You could be right about the geography of the new earth, with the land of promise being in the same location. I'll keep in mind your comments about the Dead Sea, I'm not completely dismissing the theory.

Originally Posted by chette777

If i put my money on it. I would say God is in charge of The lake of fire or eternal punishment.

Of course He is brother, He created it...

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me." - Psalm 139:7-10