[Winman]

Chette said:

our gap view does not hold death took place before Gen1:2 that is you putting us into a group we don't belong too.

But in your next post you say:

sure it does if God tells us that the wages of sin is death. surely it would be the same for Cherubs and angels

OK, which is it? Was there death before Adam or not?? In your first statement you say no, in your second statement you say yes.

Your theory is beginning to trip you up.

[chette777]

Spiritual death, look at my context. the point was if God condemns us to death for sin. What do you think he would hold for angels if they sin?

did Adams sin bring sin to Angles and Lucifer? so where did their sinfulness come from and when?

your assuming all death is physical death and all death pertains only to men. and that angles don't die but neither does you soul. you are the one tripping up here my friend. God cast them into the lake of fire called for us the second death. but for them it is their first death

there is a physical death and a spiritual death. they are beings of spirit therefore their death is spiritual like the lost will be in the lake of Fire. stop doing circle logic and take a moment to absorb what your reading so you don't confuse death to be only physical death.

I have tried to explain it already. At times I am not good at it but I tried.

[Winman]

No, you reinforce my argument. How does destroying this world between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 affect spiritual beings? Satan wasn't destroyed like all the people on earth (except Noah and his family) during the flood. What is the point?

We know why God flooded the earth in Gen 6.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So God destroyed all the wicked men on earth. But Satan and his angels were not destroyed. Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness long after Noah's flood. So, how could destroying the physical world affect Satan?

And as I have pointed out, God has allowed Satan power and authority in the world since Adam. Satan is called the "prince of this world".

So God did not want Satan to have a kingdom or throne in your first world, but allows it now???

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Note that Satan has a throne. Notice it also says "which didst weaken the nations", So this is not before man on the earth, unless now you are going to claim these angelic beings also had nations.

[chette777]

I said already and you are not listening. the earth was destroyed not the angels and lucifer. why because it ws polluted by their sin.

He will finish his judgement by executing them as found in Rev 10 and 20

Why didn't God destroy them like he did men in the flood of Noah's day? because God had use for them still to fulfill his will i.e. to temp Mrs Adam and tempt you and I plus a host of other revealed fats in the Bible.

He allowed Satan power in this world the moment Satan tempts eve. he became the prince when Adam WILLFULLY sinned. He was never the prince of this world in the pre Gen1:2 earth. I never made that claim.

the throne was one he claims to be his. God never said he gave him a throne (silence at best). that throne was one he was commissioned to build on the earth for God's Son (God know what would take place) after he built it he took if for himself hence I will exalt MY THRONE. we are not told he had one anywhere in scripture after the fall of Adam. it may exist in form in outer space Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

but he never had a throne we was the cherub that covereth.

your grabbing at straws and I am tiring. have a nice day I will not respond any more until tomorrow.

[Winman]

No, I'm hearing you, but it doesn't make sense. What do you mean the world was polluted by their sin? They weren't destroyed, Satan and his angels were still around when Adam and Eve were created.

Do you mean pollution like the pollution in the world we talk about today? Did they drive SUVs, did they have toxic chemical or nuclear wastes?

[Winman]

Well, it's been a long day, I've got to go to bed, and I'll be out of town tomorrow. But I'll get back.

Here's something to think about till then. You say there is no mention of Satan's throne? See Revelations 2:13

Rev 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

Look up seat in this verse and you will find it means throne.

[chette777]

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. the context tells us these pollutions are man sinfulness.

when I used the term pollution I didn't know I would have to explain it to you. sin brought int he curse of the whole earth. that is pollution of sin plus it's ongoing effect in this world

if this world is so "very good" since it's creation why does God destroy it with fire, 2 Peter 3:6 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

a seat is not a throne. they are different. the rule of thumb is, things that differ are not the same.

well if the angels are not in the Lake of fire where are they?

the following verse is the very place they are the lake of fire

Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[Winman]

You do not understand what I am getting at. I understand pollution means something that defiles. In 2 Peter 2:20 this applies to people, not the earth.

But you believe the earth was destroyed, although we both know Satan and his angels were not destroyed.

Do you not see the difference? In Gen 6 all men were entangled and overcome (except Noah and family) by the pollutions of the world and were destroyed. The earth itself was not completely destroyed however.

But your gap theory believes the earth was destroyed, "without form and void"

What good is that? Satan and the angels weren't destroyed. It didn't stop Satan from tempting Eve in the garden later.

And take any good concordance and look up "seat" in Rev 2:13 and you will find it means throne.

[chette777]

You do not understand what I am getting at.

It applies to persons and the earth is also corrupted (polluted) After the Angels sinned their earth was corrupted just like ours was because of Adams sin.

the sons of God were destroyed but the devils that had inhabited them were not. it is semantics you and I both know that your soul doesn't die. it goes to a waiting place if unsaved and to be with the Lord if you are saved.

the earth will be destroyed and the Bible declares it and in Rev chapter 20 we are told it flees from the face of God. Peter verifies it will burn with a fervent heat and we are left to see a NEW earth. not the previous one made over like at the flood of Noah a whole new earth.

the destruction of the placed called earth in Gen 1:1 was for a purpose. The purpose for Satan to still be alive until our judgement is completed is for a reason that is all laid out in the Bible.

you have to change the meaning of seat to throne. it also just means seat like and he took his seat. it doesn't prove it was a throne. I know new versions translated it as throne so you want to be like newer versions then the KJV is not true if you have to change it. be careful there either the English is the original preserved in the KJV or it is not and you have to change it. But you can't have it both ways.

God didn't destroy the Pre Gen 1:2 earth to kill Lucifer. for if that were the case there would be no Satan to temp Mrs Adam. so obveious it was destroyed because of a reason Unrevealed possibly the throne that was on it.

The whole of the Bible come to a conclusion to a throne on the earth. this has always been the purpose and it will be. as an added benefit God created man for those being created for it originally failed their test as man later would. But this time God had his plan laid out to save and redeem man for hispurpose to serve the Son in his Kingdom onthe Earth. this is the purpose theearth ws created for God the Son to be glorified.

[chette777]

Geologist view goes deep and wide into the great halls of Scholarship. that is where I begin to doubt some of the conclusions his supported materials mention such as different versions of old Testament books, Sumerian tablets, ancient cosmologies of long gone dynasties of men (based on archeology). it all gets bogged down in scholarship.

however a point and evidence that some of the material made is that the Gap goes back to early church and even before established by old Hebrew books and histories would indicate that men held these views long before the 1800's