[George]

Originally Posted by solabiblia

"This is classic circular reasoning combined with begging the question. Can't you come up with anything better for an argument? I think we deserve better than this."

Solabiblia,

You have been on this Forum for less than a week and you are DEMANDING something "better than this" (from the "FORUM ADMINISTRATOR" - No Less?

Take some time and read through the HUNDREDS of Posts (& Threads) on the issue of WHICH BIBLE before you make your juvenile comments!

What is it with you anyway? This is an "AV1611 Forum" after all" - Why are you here If you don't like or agree with us? There are plenty of other "religious" forums on the net that you should feel right at home at.

It's a free country (for a little while longer) believe what you will, but don't make childish demands on us - we don't owe you any answers when you approach us with "attitude"!

[Will Kinney]

Originally Posted by Diligent

That's fine, however: your only argument offered is that an inferior translation agrees with your reading. When sticking to the superior KJV, and examining the plain English, as well as the doctrinal ramifications, it's clear to me that the other translations are simply wrong. Of course, this is the 87th post and still nothing new is being said.

Right on, Brandon. I totally agree.

Will K

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by solabiblia

This is classic circular reasoning combined with begging the question. Can't you come up with anything better for an argument? I think we deserve better than this.

Hm.

There are dozens of posts in this very thread alone that explain why only the reading in the KJV can be correct so the "begged question" has been answered already. There's nothing circular about pointing out that a translation that disagrees with the KJV translation in this case is inferior. The correct reading has already been proved here, so it can easily be used as a standard by which to judge other translations.

Now, to the rest of your message:

1. I'm not sure what it is you think you "deserve" from me. I am not in any way in your debt and I am not the type of person who responds positively to presumption on my time and will. You can take or leave what I say but I don't owe you anything.

2. This thread has over 90 posts in it now. This website (start at http://av1611.com/kjbp ) has tons of articles and more than one of them on this very passage. This forum has close to 15,000 posts. If you think you deserve (whatever that means) more than one argument, there is plenty here for your perusal.

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Hm.

There are dozens of posts in this very thread alone that explain why only the reading in the KJV can be correct so the "begged question" has been answered already. There's nothing circular about pointing out that a translation that disagrees with the KJV translation in this case is inferior. The correct reading has already been proved here, so it can easily be used as a standard by which to judge other translations.

Now, to the rest of your message:

1. I'm not sure what it is you think you "deserve" from me. I am not in any way in your debt and I am not the type of person who responds positively to presumption on my time and will. You can take or leave what I say but I don't owe you anything.

2. This thread has over 90 posts in it now. This website (start at http://av1611.com/kjbp ) has tons of articles and more than one of them on this very passage. This forum has close to 15,000 posts. If you think you deserve (whatever that means) more than one argument, there is plenty here for your perusal.

I have yet to see one post that proves the KJV is superior to the Geneva or any other Bible of that time period. I am certainly no critic to the KJV. It is an outstanding Bible but I see no true argument against that which I posted. The KJV agrees with the Geneva and Bishops. It is easily misunderstood. That was my point. Hammer it if you like but you have little proof on this and I have other translation taken from the same text to back me up.

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by solabiblia

This is classic circular reasoning combined with begging the question. Can't you come up with anything better for an argument? I think we deserve better than this.

Keep in mind that most KJVOs are hardcore individuals and mean well. There is, however, usually no way of changing thier minds or expecting a straight answer sometimes. If they have a good answer they are swift to give it. If they do not have a good answer they are gruff and sometimes very rude. They are good people though. They can have a love for God and feel they are doing His service by fighting those who disagree with them so gruffly.

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

Keep in mind that most KJVOs are hardcore individuals and mean well. There is, however, usually no way of changing thier minds or expecting a straight answer sometimes. If they have a good answer they are swift to give it. If they do not have a good answer they are gruff and sometimes very rude. They are good people though. They can have a love for God and feel they are doing His service by fighting those who disagree with them so gruffly.

And we keep this joker around because why?

The statement follows verse SIX, not verse FIVE. To say that verse SEVEN is talking about verse FIVE and not verse SIX is STUPID because that is a grammatical ERROR to do something so ignorant.

I hugged my wife.
I killed a man.
They put me in jail.

In effect, you're saying that they put me in jail for hugging my wife. That's the ludicrous ignorance that you're pushing here, and I'm flat tired of it, as are all the people that actually BELIEVE THE BIBLE. You don't believe the Bible, we understand; but go to a forum where you can talk with other apostates who believe like you do. You'll be much happier there, trust me.

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought

Keep in mind that most KJVOs are hardcore individuals and mean well. There is, however, usually no way of changing thier minds or expecting a straight answer sometimes. If they have a good answer they are swift to give it. If they do not have a good answer they are gruff and sometimes very rude. They are good people though. They can have a love for God and feel they are doing His service by fighting those who disagree with them so gruffly.

LOL, well I've been taking a look at your past posts, and I'm starting to get a picture of exactly what YOU think about the Bible... I guess most CBDs like yourself are softcore individuals who wouldn't know truth from a shadow, as shown by your reply to Brother Tim below back in October...

Originally Posted by Brother Tim
Brother, I am just responding to your seemingly contradictory statement concerning the accuracy of the KJB. Either the TR family or the AT family is false or corrupted. They cannot be seen as mutually acceptable.

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought
I think that no one truly knows which ones are more accurate. Plus, non of the texts that make up either agree on everything. Which one is better? I don't think either but I could not say that I am right on that. You stand by the TR and others stand by the AT. I feel neither are wrong to translate from and both do have error.

These are your words from your silly thread here:
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=649

Just today, you have attempted to cast MORE doubt on God's KJV, by starting a new thread here:
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=917

And I think showing a little more of your leaven will put everything in perspective for the readers:

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought
..."God did preserve His word...IN HEAVEN! ...we do not know which manuscripts are right. So we can not say which one is 100% accurate."

Originally Posted by Just_A_Thought
"God's Word has always been and always will be. He never promised us we would always have it on paper or in the English tongue."

So there it is, like a dead fish on the beach.
No wonder you have a problem with preservation.
You appear to be just another confused Bible denier who thinks there is no such thing as an inerrant Bible on Earth. Your comments do nothing to build this forum, I am surprised they are allowed to remain here, since I'm afraid your views are part of the problem, not the solution. Old news.

[Winman]

Wow, quite a discussion. I have a family member who does not believe the KJB to be the Word of God, and come to realize you cannot really reason with these people.

I got saved when I was a young boy, but did not live in a Christian home. I was kind of on my own. But I wanted to know God's word. I had an Aunt who sent me a Revised Standard Version I believe (it was many years ago, I am not absolutely sure of the version). I would read it for hours every day and tried as best I could to understand it. But I was constantly troubled by all the footnotes that said things like "better manuscripts omit this verse" and so forth. Man, I hated that. I wanted to know the truth. I wanted to know God's word. I used to pray and pray for God to show me the truth. Then one day I read Matthew 4:4:

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

That was it! I saw the word EVERY.

Jesus was saying that we must live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Now think about it, would it be fair for God to demand that we live by every word that proceedeth out of his mouth, and then not give us every word?

Would it? Would that be a kind and loving God? Would God put us here in a world of confusion and give us no way to find him?

And then, if we did not find this truth, sentence us to Hell?

No way. I knew right then and there that God's true word was out there for me to find. If God expects and wants me to live by every word that proceedeth from his mouth, then I knew he provided that word for me.

And God did provide his Word to me. It is the King James Bible. Yessiree, I am one of those dreaded KJBO or KJVO or whatever you call it. That's why I came to this forum, I tried a few others where there were all the elite intellectual types trying to disprove God's Word. They have their reward coming to them. These folks do not believe God's Word, they are full of pride, they think themselves more intelligent than simple folks like me who take God at his word. Their only motive is to try to prove to you that they more intelligent than us. FOOLS!

Proverbs 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

You aren't going to get anywhere with these folks.

And that fellow who keeps writing about the poor doesn't understand his Bible. He also takes those verses out of context.

Matthew 26:7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.
8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste?
9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.
10 When Jesus understood it, he said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me.
11 For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always.

Jesus was not promising to preserve or keep the poor from generation to generation here. The disciples wanted to sell the ointment and give it to the poor. Jesus pointed out that he would be put to death in a short time, he would not be among them any longer, but the poor would always be around.

And God does not have to preserve the poor. There are many reasons for poverty. In this country most (but not all) are poor because they fail to work or save, or spend their money foolishly. Now, I know there are many who are poor because of sickness and even financial hardships not caused by themselves, but most of the poor are poor because of their own doings. We see immigrants who come here without a penny in their pocket and in a few short years are wealthy. So, in America anyway, there is no real reason to be poor. Other countries? Yes, war and corrupt govenments impoverish many.

But, I'm getting off the subject. Jesus was simply stating a FACT. The poor will always be here. He did not say "I will preserve the poor" or "I will keep the poor". This fellow is taking these verses completely out of context.

I am personally not too keen on elitist intellectual types. I believe in good old common sense. It is pretty easy to see where all these elitist folks are taking the economy right now. Yep, PhDs from Harvard and Yale, and they run a company into the ground. I am no scholar, but I have supported a family for many years and am not in debt whatsoever. These companies should hire some blue-collar types to run their companies, then maybe they would be making a profit.

[George]

Aloha brother Winman,

Amen brother, I'm with you all the way!

These "intellectual", "pious", sweet talking "Christians" are the CURSE of Christianity!

They always appear (on the surface) to be so sweeeet - but underneath that "slick veneer" is a gnat straining, camel swallowing, insincere hypocrite that has no more interest in the TRUTH, than the brightest Humanistic College professor you will meet on any Godless College Campus in America!

Have you ever wondered WHY they come on this Forum? {I have.} I have never had the desire to go on the dozens of so-called "bible" forums out there that don't profess to believe in any BOOK on earth being their "FINAL AUTHORITY"! I wouldn't be caught DEAD on those kind of Forums - would you? Then WHY do they come here? Hmmmm?

What is there about real Bible believers that just drives these guys bonkers? If they don't want to believe what we believe why do they bother with us?

I don't go on their forums and harass them! I don't seek out Bible "deniers" on those other forums and start an argument with them over their beliefs! I don't join their forums and agree to abide by their rules and then seek out (by subtefruge) brethren just to have a "debate" with them! I don't go on their forums and "insult" them! ("NICELY" - OF COURSE! No crude, coarse, or rough language for them - Oh No! Everything said has to be "couched" in a feigned, flattering, effeminate, clever, and P.C. manner - NO "PLAIN TALK" for them!)

WHY can't they just leave "sleeping dogs lie"? I believe I have the answer. They just can't stand that there are some Christians that are willing to take a stand on the Holy words of God; that there are some Christians that are willing to go outside of the camp and bear the "reproach of Christ" [Hebrews 13:13]; that there are some Christians that are willing to be labeled backward, ignorant, uneducated, illiterate, etc.; that there are some Christians that "embarass" them because they (genuine Bible believers) don't believe what they believe and are unwilling to "go along to get along" with "the pack" to keep the peace.

That is they cannot stand that we proclaim to the world (and to the "Christian" Bible "deniers") that we have a Book, the King James Bible, that is Holy, pure, and without error and that IT is our "FINAL AUTHORITY" in all matters of faith and practice!

They can't stand the fact that we WILL NOT FOLLOW THEM OR THE MEN THAT THEY ARE FOLLOWING, and so they must try at least, to talk us out of our faith in God's word and in God's PROMISE TO KEEP HIS WORDS!

We are an "embarrassment" to the whole "Christian" Academic establishment, and we must be stopped at all costs - just because they don't believe what we believe. Have you ever encountered such an INTOLERANT & BIGOTED ATTITUDE amongst Christians as that?

You can spot these charlatans a mile away by their sweeet demeanor; by their "enticing words of man's wisdom" [1Corinthians 2:4]; by their "good words and fair speeches" that are meant to "deceive the hearts of the simple" [Romans 16:18];

God's word has a commandment for us - that we are to follow when we encounter these kind of "Christian Skeptics":

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

I always do! I don't waste my time {or God's} once I discover WHO I am dealing with.

[MC1171611]

AMEN Bro. George! Let 'em have it!