[stephanos]

Originally Posted by aussiemama

So it is ok to kill someone if someone is supposedly going to die anyway? Murder is still murder. Why don't we just trust God in these rare situations rather than murder the baby?

This is really an ignorant statement. Who would you "murder" the mother or the baby? Think about this for a second before you respond. They don't usually kill (although some mothers aren't against abortion so they just might), but often times they'll try to get the child out and if the lungs are healthy enough put the child on a ventilator. Premature babies happen all the time, and doctors are getting better and better about saving this children.

http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/Newbo...re_babies.html

So anywho, it's important to remember that a husband and wife are one flesh. Let me put it another way, if the Lord were to bless me with a wife I would have a very difficult time telling the doctors to "murder" my wife in order to save the baby that "might" live.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Having a premature baby is far different from having an abortion because the mother "will" die (in the doctors OPINION anyway). Trusting God is not murdering the wife, it's saying "we will obey God by not murdering our baby, and trust Him with the wife's life".

Originally Posted by aussiemama

So it is ok to kill someone if someone is supposedly going to die anyway? Murder is still murder. Why don't we just trust God in these rare situations rather than murder the baby?

"We" might do that, Aussiemama: "we're" Christians, and know about trust in God. But I'm afraid the vast majority of women in this situation don't know the Lord at all. How can they trust in Whom they have not even believed? You can't expect Christian behavior from non-Christians.

Biblestudent,
I am probably one of the most ardent pro-lifers you will find, been very close to this issue for many years, and most of the pro-lifers I know all say in the rare case a mother's life is indeed actually "threatened," then it is considered self defense, she certainly has a right to her survival with our full support. But let's face it: today's medical tech has virtually removed this from the realm of reality.

And, let's not forget the threat of the abortion itself.
In the last seven years, four major epidemiological studies have shown that abortion is actually associated with HIGHER rates of death compared to childbirth. The most recent study of pregnancy-related deaths was published earlier this year in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology. That study, linking birth, death, and abortion records for the entire country of Finland over a thirteen year period, found that women who had abortions were three times more likely to die than women who gave birth:
http://www.afterabortion.org/news/DeathsReview.htm

"What happens if the life of the mother is medically threatened?"

"This question has to be answered with a question. Just ask someone who is pro-choice: What medical condition are you referring to? 99.99% of the responders will not have an answer. There is only one biological reason why the life of the mother could be threatened by a fetus. (Ectopic pregnancy). Most often it is discovered early. The procedure to safely render the medically threatened mother entails the removal of the fetus but in most cases the viability for life for the fetus was threatened at the moment the egg made its attachment. Challenge those who believe in choice to ask a doctor if they know of any medical cases when it has been necessary to abort the fetus because the mother’s life is threaded after 45 days into development. Again this is another false argument."
http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=22797

VR, I was only speaking to the Christians on this board who seem to think it would be ok to kill a baby to save a mother, not unsaved people.

Originally Posted by aussiemama

VR, I was only speaking to the Christians on this board who seem to think it would be ok to kill a baby to save a mother, not unsaved people.

Aussiemama. I love you dearly. I'm your Patron and Defender, okay? But I've gotta say something you might not like to hear.

I've had four children, and two of them have produced multiple offspring of their own. I love babies; if I could afford it, I would have had ten or twelve (had my wife agreed!). I was present at the delivery of all four of mine, and the experience ranks almost as high as my conversion as the most precious of my life.

But, let's say - - - although it's statistically very, very unlikely - - - that a Christian woman is told, by a capable and pro-life doctor, that carrying a newly-conceived child will kill her. No ifs, ands, or buts: either the mother or the baby will die.

It's fine to talk about faith, and if the parents in such a situation decided against an abortion, I'd admire and envy their faith. But say they already had children. Is refusing an abortion really worth depriving those children of their mother, and depriving her husband of his wife - - - especially when she might have other children in the future?

No, abortion is never "okay." Not at all. But, if it were my wife, and the doctor really knew what he was talking about, I would, as head of the home, opt for the abortion.

And if anyone wanted to say that I "didn't have enough faith," they'd just have to say it.

[Brother Tim]

VR, I appreciate your very personal and sincere confession. At this point, I have never had to make such a decision, and my prayer is that neither my daughters, daughters-in-law, or any sisters of my church family will never be faced with such a no-win decision.

[MC1171611]

Not yet having become a father, I am not one to place a whole lot of stock in as far as parenting issues and things like this go. However, I do want to throw my thoughts into this discussion real quick, and then I'll jump back out and see what happens.

From my perspective, a man and a woman are one flesh; that is a special union ordained by God. Lo, children are an heritage from the Lord; however, they do not intrude (or should not!) upon the bond between the man and his wife. As someone once said, children are but guests in their parents' house for 18-20-something years. Guests that should be taken care of, loved, and protected at all costs, but not when that comes between the parents and their unique, God-ordained union. My parents loved me, but they loved each other first, and that is how it's supposed to be.

I know that for women this can be hard; especially for mothers or expectant mothers. While killing a child is never a good thing for any reason, sometimes there is little choice when it comes to the life of the mother. Granted these times are extremely rare, and the chances of that occurring to anyone involved in this particular discussion are very slim, but the principle should be established.

Something else: some say that things of this nature are a test of faith; while this may or may not be true, saying that someone, in this hypothetical situation, lacks faith because he or she decides to take the life of the child, is rather retarded. Locking your door at night isn't a lack of faith in God: it's common sense.

Overall, I think it's important to step back and try to view the situation from others' perspectives, be it that of someone else in this discussion, someone of the opposite gender, or a completely uninvolved third party. Things tend to clear themselves up once you get a wider angled view of the situation.

I'm a mom to two young boys and my husband said he would never want to lose me, but both us and our church believe that murder is wrong for ANY reason. I don't know why this concept is so difficult for people...it's emotional for sure, but the Biblical commands are clear here so we just have to put our emotions in check and OBEY.

Originally Posted by stephanos

This is really an IGNORANT statement.

Originally Posted by MC1171611

saying that someone, in this hypothetical situation, lacks faith because he or she decides to take the life of the child, is rather RETARDED.

Gents:
Regardless, I think we should be able to respect each other's views here without using these kinds of descriptions... (caps mine)