[Traditional Anglican]

I was in a "little" debate with some Roman Catholics, I stated that their beliefs were a worship of Mary and the Saints. Correct me here my friends, BUT if I see people BOWING DOWN to a statue, lighting little red candles and speaking to it....you are pretty much in a state of "worship". They gave the usual RCC answer: "You ask living friends to Pray for you, why not Mary and the Saints since they are so much closer to God." I know some of you have heard that line. Here is the problem, EVEN if you could convince me it was not worship, Scripture FORBIDS communicating with the dead, it is Necromancy and an Abomination. My question is this, how do you get around their semantics to communicate there is a REAL problem??????

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Traditional Anglican

"You ask living friends to Pray for you, why not Mary and the Saints since they are so much closer to God."

It is very difficult to reason with people who hold man-made traditions as the final authority above God's word. Usually we would turn to the relevant verses of scripture and show them what God says to prove them wrong, but they won't accept that. So I guess you need to be tactful and defeat them by their own reasoning, somehow?

In cases like this, where you are basically debating against a brick wall, I prefer to shift the subject and focus on Jesus Christ and Him crucified. Stick with the gospel and salvation, because if you can't agree on that everything else is worthless.

Originally Posted by Traditional Anglican

I was in a "little" debate with some Roman Catholics, I stated that their beliefs were a worship of Mary and the Saints. Correct me here my friends, BUT if I see people BOWING DOWN to a statue, lighting little red candles and speaking to it....you are pretty much in a state of "worship". They gave the usual RCC answer: "You ask living friends to Pray for you, why not Mary and the Saints since they are so much closer to God." I know some of you have heard that line. Here is the problem, EVEN if you could convince me it was not worship, Scripture FORBIDS communicating with the dead, it is Necromancy and an Abomination. My question is this, how do you get around their semantics to communicate there is a REAL problem??????

Hi TA,

Catholics, while expressing a belief in "the Bible" being the word of God, do not look upon it as the final authority. If you show them scripture that contradicts what the church teaches, they ignore scripture and go with church doctrine.

Sill, "the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two ed-ged sword."..Heb 4:12

With this in mind, it is still best to just use scripture to correct them, and dont try to reason with them at an "intellectual" level....that is to say, use Gods words, not your own.

Show them this scripture and then ask them how many mediators between man and God the scripture tells us there are?

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

With the answer being "one" then ask them why they persist in praying to Mary and ignoring the word of God, especially in light of the following scripture?

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The fact is that they will be judged by the very words of scripture (Gods words) that they reject.

Show them the truth and let God give the increase.

Fundy

[PB1789]

Good answers from both Kiwi and Fundy {Hello Southern Cross folks, from a Big Dipper folk }

Traditional Anglican:--- What you said is exactly what I think about the R.C. type folks... And I have been inside several of the Roman Catholic "Mission Churches" in California for tours and to get a bit of "history" when I used to live there. There is a smaller one (whose name is shared by a State Prison-btw) in the San Joaquin Valley that has a huge statue of a woman in a dress at the front of the sanctuary area...and she isn't even holding a baby...like they normally depict Mary in the paintings and candle holders/ statuettes. That figure was at least 5 1/2 feet tall with a big dress and standing about 4 or 5 feet above the floor.

I understand them having a crucifix on a necklace or on a wall ( I prefer a plain cross) so they can remember Christ Jesus suffering on Calvary... BUT--when I see people praying to a statue of a woman who died in the 1st Century A.D. --- I say: No Thank you very much!

The odd thing about talking with R.C.'s (if they will actually try to defend their practices) is that when you read them a Bible verse or encourage them to read from their own Bible-(which several R.C.'s don't even own!)- to challenge what they are doing, they will tell you that The Roman Catholic Church brought forth the Bible,,,therefore if what they are reading in God's Word conflicts with the thinkings/doings of Rome...they will usually stick with the teachings/traditions of the Vatican.

But, stick with it--- Plant the seeds... maybe, someday ... the Word will take hold and grow some roots. Hey! -- why not invite them to visit your Church sometime..? The R.E.C. is a formal/conservative/liturgical/ style setting and they might feel less "intimidated" than if they were to visit somewhere else. { It's the "Honey versus Vinegar" approach -}

[kittn1]

Originally Posted by PB1789

I understand them having a crucifix on a necklace or on a wall ( I prefer a plain cross) so they can remember Christ Jesus suffering on Calvary...

When I see a crucifix I think they're stuck half-way through the story. The cross is empty! So is the tomb!

Up from the grave He arose,
With a mighty triumph o’er His foes,
He arose a Victor from the dark domain,
And He lives forever, with His saints to reign.
He arose! He arose!
Hallelujah! Christ arose!

[Traditional Anglican]

A thing that really cracks me up (or would, were it not sad) is this, I have heard SO many RCs say they ask Mary to pray for them and they do NOT direct prayers to her, then 5 minutes later, they slip up and talk about prayers to the Holy Queen Of Heaven!!!!

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Traditional Anglican

My question is this, how do you get around their semantics to communicate there is a REAL problem??????

Brother TA, I would share the Gospel of Christ and not even discuss "praying to statues" or to someone other than the Lord Jesus Christ. Fundy shared some appropriate scripture, but the lost don't get it. Preach Jesus and Him crucified. I have never been able to "reason" with someone who lacks spiritual understanding.

2 Corinthians 4:3-6 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Traditional Anglican

I was in a "little" debate with some Roman Catholics, I stated that their beliefs were a worship of Mary and the Saints. Correct me here my friends, BUT if I see people BOWING DOWN to a statue, lighting little red candles and speaking to it....you are pretty much in a state of "worship".

Exodus 20 v23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.

Catholics used to have a KJ Bible,i do not know what they use now. My girlfriend,who is hispanic and was a catholic,said her mother has a spanish KJ bible. The RC have become more ritualistic than biblical. Her family believes they are not worthy to pray directly to God,so they go through Mary,I also used
I Tim. 2v5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It's difficult to relate to them when they can't speak english.

[Traditional Anglican]

There are rumors Benedict will proclaim Mary Co-Mediator (in fairness this has been believed for years in the RCC) however IF Pope Benedict does this Ex-Cathedra it will become a permanent and binding doctrine on Roman Catholics from here on out, all this to say some Catholics who are a bit "Evangelical" and tend to focus on Christ will be bound by conscience to this "doctrine". TWO Mediators? If the Roman Church is NOT the Harlot "Church" of Revelation I don't know what is..............

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by kittn1

When I see a crucifix I think they're stuck half-way through the story. The cross is empty! So is the tomb!

Up from the grave He arose,
With a mighty triumph o’er His foes,
He arose a Victor from the dark domain,
And He lives forever, with His saints to reign.
He arose! He arose!
Hallelujah! Christ arose!

PRAISE GOD for that great hymn!!!