Originally Posted by Spirit of Elijah.

Hi every one I am new here and din,t know how to introduce myself but found a subject that has been close to my heart. This phrase God loves the sinner but hates the sinnner in my veiw is unbiblical and came about of a feel good statment that really didn,t say anything. For what is in a sinner but sin (Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins. or Ps 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.
Note it doesn,t say God is angry with "wickedness" as in the cliche but wicked! every day. I hope this help to bring us back to God rightfull thinking
Regards s.o.e

Welcome to the forum, Soe! (I can't bring myself to call you either "Spirit" or "Elijah," no offense!) I agree with what you wrote, but I'd welcome you even if I didn't. Just jump in with both feet and start posting! I hope that your presence here will be mutually edifying - - - and it's a great place for prayer requests, too!

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by Vendetta Ride

Welcome to the forum, Soe! (I can't bring myself to call you either "Spirit" or "Elijah," no offense!) I agree with what you wrote, but I'd welcome you even if I didn't. Just jump in with both feet and start posting! I hope that your presence here will be mutually edifying - - - and it's a great place for prayer requests, too!

Not Spirit, not Elijah...how about addressing him as "Of" then?

Welcome and enjoy!

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Vendetta Ride

Welcome to the forum, Soe! (I can't bring myself to call you either "Spirit" or "Elijah," no offense!) I agree with what you wrote, but I'd welcome you even if I didn't. Just jump in with both feet and start posting! I hope that your presence here will be mutually edifying - - - and it's a great place for prayer requests, too!

Hello Brother. Tell me why you agree with:

This phrase God loves the sinner but hates the sinnner in my veiw is unbiblical and came about of a feel good statment that really didn,t say anything.

Do these verses teach that God loves the sinner?

Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Can we conclude that it was God's love that provides reason He would send His only begotten Son to die for a man, who happens to be a sinner? Does God love the sinner based on the written word?

Do these verses teach that God hates the sinner?

Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.

Can we conclude that God's hates the man, who is a worker of iniquity, is wicked, and the one who loves violence? Does God hate the sinner based on the written word?

Praise Him, I once was His enemy, but through Christ, I've been reconciled to God!

[MC1171611]

I believe he was trying to say "Loves the sinner but hates the sin."

Romans 5:8 simply says that, speaking of the saved individuals in the church, God proved His love by giving His Son to die for us. This is along the same lines of John 3:16: past tense, and applying generically to His entire human creation, not specific sinners. I love my family, but there are people I seriously can't stand (not so far as hate, as per 1 Jm. 3:15).

However I am not necessarily opposed to a simultaneous Love/Hate stance; God is God, and He can do whatever the heck He wants to. If that includes loving and hating the same person at the same time, then who am I to question Him?

[Forrest]

Hello Vince. You wrote:

Romans 5:8 simply says that, speaking of the saved individuals in the church, God proved His love by giving His Son to die for us.

He did prove His love. But He proved or demonstrated His love by giving His Son for sinners. God loved me when I was a sinner!

Originally Posted by MC1171611

Not Spirit, not Elijah...how about addressing him as "Of" then?

Welcome and enjoy!

"Of" Is great
Thx

[Luke]

This is stupid

One one side we have the people who are up in arms about:

"Loves the sinner but hates the sin" isn't biblical and preachers only use it to get quick decisions and let people live in sin because God loves the sinner etcetc.

On the other hand we have the people who are saying

"God loved me while I was a sinner, and he loves me now".

The only verses you can find to show God hates sinners are PRE CALVARY. Which is also what Romans 5:8 is.

So you are both right. Let God be sovereign in this issue. He hates the wicked. Yet He loves the wicked at that same time. God is perfect. Can He not do these two things and still not be perfect?

Seeing christians argue over whether God loves or hates sinners (who He died for) is childish.

Furthermore, it is really hurting me to see it (not that I matter, but I am quite weak in the faith, and this topic is not edifying - I know I have the choice to read it or not, but it shouldn't even be brought up).

God loves sinners. He died for them. He didn't suddenly start hating them after Calvary. And I wasn't even born when He died for me, and He still loved me then. Yes, God hates sin. And God hates those that do sin. But you can't just form your own opinions based on some false doctrine someone preached one time. Just because someone was convinced that they could go on in sin doesn't make the whole teaching wrong.

This topic makes me sick.

[atlas]

Luke,

This topic makes me sick.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Atlas

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Luke

This is stupid

One one side we have the people who are up in arms about:

"Loves the sinner but hates the sin" isn't biblical and preachers only use it to get quick decisions and let people live in sin because God loves the sinner etcetc.

On the other hand we have the people who are saying

"God loved me while I was a sinner, and he loves me now".

The only verses you can find to show God hates sinners are PRE CALVARY. Which is also what Romans 5:8 is.

So you are both right. Let God be sovereign in this issue. He hates the wicked. Yet He loves the wicked at that same time. God is perfect. Can He not do these two things and still not be perfect?

Seeing Christians argue over whether God loves or hates sinners (who He died for) is childish.

Furthermore, it is really hurting me to see it (not that I matter, but I am quite weak in the faith, and this topic is not edifying - I know I have the choice to read it or not, but it shouldn't even be brought up).

God loves sinners. He died for them. He didn't suddenly start hating them after Calvary. And I wasn't even born when He died for me, and He still loved me then. Yes, God hates sin. And God hates those that do sin. But you can't just form your own opinions based on some false doctrine someone preached one time. Just because someone was convinced that they could go on in sin doesn't make the whole teaching wrong.

This topic makes me sick.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Atlas

• THE ANSWERS ON THIS THREAD ARE RELEVANT BECAUSE:

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

• GOD HATES THE SINNER:

Psalms 5:4-6 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup. For the righteous LORD loveth

• GOD LOVES THE SINNER:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Romans 5:8-10 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Ephesians 2:4-7 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Personally, I do not sense any arguing going on. Simply some discussion of Bible verses resulting in different views and answers. If the WORD of GOD above, which answers the opening question of this thread is "stupid," "childish," and makes you "sick," brethren Luke and Atlas, I exhort you to not read it. If, on the other hand, the WORD of GOD is fine, but it's the comments of fallible man that make you sick, I understand. I don't read the "threads" that make me sick. But to me, and perhaps others, this particular subject is not stupid, childish, or sickening. It's your choice, brethren. Very unchristian to pounce, Luke. NOT

[Luke]

But what you said I am in agreement with. The Bible says God lives sinners and it says He hates sinners. I said let God be sovereign in this issue. It is not out of His power to do both and still be God.

It seems to me that there are two camps arguing, and neither is willing to admit the other is right, when they are both right.

I have no problem with any of the verses you wrote. My only problem is with the two camps - one arguing that God hates sinners, no exceptions, and the other saying that God loves sinners, no exceptions.

The truth is as you said. God hates sinners and God loves sinners.